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Old 01-04-2010, 07:45 AM   #81
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Do you do your best thinking in the shower? I do. Here is what I thought of this morning in the shower:

People who lived before the time of Christ will spend eternity in purgatory because they didn't know there was a true religion, and people who lived after the time of Christ but were not Christian will spend eternity in hell because they did not practice the one true religion. So, that means that Moses spends his eternity in purgatory; do Jesus, Mary and Joseph spend eternity in purgatory as well, since they were Jewish? And that does mean that Ghandi spends eternity in hell.
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Old 01-04-2010, 07:57 AM   #82
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My mom pretty much 'fessed up after we started asking too many questions about Milton Bradley and other brands on toys. I think we'd been suspicious for awhile before it was confirmed.
LOL! I think I was around 6 years old and I got a baby doll cradle for Xmas. I asked my mom "Does Santa shop at Toys-R-Us?"

Mom: Why do you ask?

Sam: Because that is Jeffrey the Giraffee!
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Old 01-04-2010, 07:58 AM   #83
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Do you do your best thinking in the shower? I do. Here is what I thought of this morning in the shower:

People who lived before the time of Christ will spend eternity in purgatory because they didn't know there was a true religion, and people who lived after the time of Christ but were not Christian will spend eternity in hell because they did not practice the one true religion. So, that means that Moses spends his eternity in purgatory; do Jesus, Mary and Joseph spend eternity in purgatory as well, since they were Jewish? And that does mean that Ghandi spends eternity in hell.
You spend too long in the shower LOL
You aren't suppose to ask those questions if you are a good Christian remember?
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:54 AM   #84
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Do you do your best thinking in the shower? I do. Here is what I thought of this morning in the shower:

People who lived before the time of Christ will spend eternity in purgatory because they didn't know there was a true religion, and people who lived after the time of Christ but were not Christian will spend eternity in hell because they did not practice the one true religion. So, that means that Moses spends his eternity in purgatory; do Jesus, Mary and Joseph spend eternity in purgatory as well, since they were Jewish? And that does mean that Ghandi spends eternity in hell.
When I was a kid I used to get angry at missionaries because I believed that they were causing more people to go to hell than to heaven. I was raised Protestant so there was no purgatory. My dad told me that people who didn't know anything about Jesus would go to Heaven, but people who knew and rejected him would go to hell. So in my viewpoint I would always think that missionaries were telling people about Jesus, making it possible for them to go to hell now (if they chose not to accept Jesus, which is what I believed the majority would do), whereas otherwise, they would've gone to heaven.

Yes, that means Ghandi spends eternity in hell, as well as Mother Teresa (since she's "Catholic" and therefore not "Christian" according to my Protestant parents).
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:12 AM   #85
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Do you do your best thinking in the shower? I do. Here is what I thought of this morning in the shower:

People who lived before the time of Christ will spend eternity in purgatory because they didn't know there was a true religion, and people who lived after the time of Christ but were not Christian will spend eternity in hell because they did not practice the one true religion. So, that means that Moses spends his eternity in purgatory; do Jesus, Mary and Joseph spend eternity in purgatory as well, since they were Jewish? And that does mean that Ghandi spends eternity in hell.
You DO take too long in the shower! It's kind of funny how all the christians/deists buddy up when it comes to certain social issues but when it comes right down to it, they think the other ones are cults or heretics or whatever and seem ok with the idea that other flavors of christians are headed for hades.

I remember a bible study class (catholic) from a long time ago. We asked the priest what the church's current view of hell was. He replied that maybe there wasn't any hell. I think we all were thinking, what are you saying? We were raised on it and now you're changing the rules?
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:57 AM   #86
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You spend too long in the shower LOL
You aren't suppose to ask those questions if you are a good Christian remember?
Yeah, I know .

Geez! First I'm not a good atheist, now I'm not a good Christian. I hope you don't start telling me I'm not a good something-that-I-really-am.
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Old 01-04-2010, 10:05 AM   #87
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When I was a kid I used to get angry at missionaries because I believed that they were causing more people to go to hell than to heaven. I was raised Protestant so there was no purgatory. My dad told me that people who didn't know anything about Jesus would go to Heaven, but people who knew and rejected him would go to hell. So in my viewpoint I would always think that missionaries were telling people about Jesus, making it possible for them to go to hell now (if they chose not to accept Jesus, which is what I believed the majority would do), whereas otherwise, they would've gone to heaven.

Yes, that means Ghandi spends eternity in hell, as well as Mother Teresa (since she's "Catholic" and therefore not "Christian" according to my Protestant parents).
Sophie! So good to "see" you!

I was raised generic protestant w/o purgatory as well, but the last christian sect I thought I would follow was catholicism, so they are pretty jumbled in my hethen mind now. I thought about including Mother Theresa in my earlier message, but christian is christian in my mind. You are so right about the missionaries, but it bothers me now that some people believe that their faith is the only faith and anyone who believes differently is damned, regardless of what kind of person they are.
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Old 01-04-2010, 10:09 AM   #88
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You DO take too long in the shower! It's kind of funny how all the christians/deists buddy up when it comes to certain social issues but when it comes right down to it, they think the other ones are cults or heretics or whatever and seem ok with the idea that other flavors of christians are headed for hades.

I remember a bible study class (catholic) from a long time ago. We asked the priest what the church's current view of hell was. He replied that maybe there wasn't any hell. I think we all were thinking, what are you saying? We were raised on it and now you're changing the rules?
WOW! A Catholic preist saying there may not be a hell! I can understand the church changing to adapt to social norms, but to change a basic foundational pillar of the church...I just don't know what to say...I'm shocked.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:05 AM   #89
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Sophie! So good to "see" you!

I was raised generic protestant w/o purgatory as well, but the last christian sect I thought I would follow was catholicism, so they are pretty jumbled in my hethen mind now. I thought about including Mother Theresa in my earlier message, but christian is christian in my mind. You are so right about the missionaries, but it bothers me now that some people believe that their faith is the only faith and anyone who believes differently is damned, regardless of what kind of person they are.
Not only damned but immoral, tactless, unloving and unloved, stupid, money grubbing, I could go on
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:45 AM   #90
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That's the problem with "religion" - too many rules.

I can understand people feeling spiritual. I just don't get organized religion. It's a curse!!!!

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Old 01-04-2010, 12:35 PM   #91
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When I was a kid I used to get angry at missionaries because I believed that they were causing more people to go to hell than to heaven. I was raised Protestant so there was no purgatory. My dad told me that people who didn't know anything about Jesus would go to Heaven, but people who knew and rejected him would go to hell. So in my viewpoint I would always think that missionaries were telling people about Jesus, making it possible for them to go to hell now (if they chose not to accept Jesus, which is what I believed the majority would do), whereas otherwise, they would've gone to heaven.

Yes, that means Ghandi spends eternity in hell, as well as Mother Teresa (since she's "Catholic" and therefore not "Christian" according to my Protestant parents).

Wha??? Catholic isn't Christian? That makes no sense... Catholics were first... and the Protestants spun off from them... How can they be not Christian?

(Or is my Catholic upbringing painting history incorrectly?)
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:38 PM   #92
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Wha??? Catholic isn't Christian? That makes no sense... Catholics were first... and the Protestants spun off from them... How can they be not Christian?

(Or is my Catholic upbringing painting history incorrectly?)
LOL Yeah I had 16 years of Catholic schools and the first time I heard that Catholics weren't Christians, I was mightily confused.

The Protestant Reformation was definitely over a thousand years after the Catholic church got going.

I'm not sure where that interpretation got going, so would love to hear it if anyone knows.
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Old 01-04-2010, 03:13 PM   #93
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That's the problem with "religion" - too many rules.

I can understand people feeling spiritual. I just don't get organized religion. It's a curse!!!!

Amen, sistah friend!
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Old 01-04-2010, 04:02 PM   #94
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DH doubts I'm agnostic-with-atheist leanings, because he thinks I know too much about Christianity and/or the bible (I once answered all the clues to a biblically themed crossword). To him, if I know so much about it (which isn't much, just more than he does) then I must be some sort of believer. I told him I had to know something about it, or I wouldn't have any basis for my non-belief. I still don't think he really believes me
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Old 01-04-2010, 04:04 PM   #95
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If knowledge equaled belief I'd be thin and rich
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Old 01-04-2010, 04:09 PM   #96
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I should have said if knowledge makes it so I'd be thin and rich.
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:37 PM   #97
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DH doubts I'm agnostic-with-atheist leanings, because he thinks I know too much about Christianity and/or the bible (I once answered all the clues to a biblically themed crossword). To him, if I know so much about it (which isn't much, just more than he does) then I must be some sort of believer. I told him I had to know something about it, or I wouldn't have any basis for my non-belief. I still don't think he really believes me
So I guess someone like me, with 16 years of Catholic education plus a Jesuit University, can never be agnostic or atheist?

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Old 01-05-2010, 06:43 AM   #98
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I'm often amazed by how every religion condemns non-believers to some form of eternal punishment if they don't believe exactly as they do. Do they believe in god because of faith or fear of punishment? What is so wrong with "no longer existing" after you die? Do I only have the choice of eternity in heaven (sounds awfully long and boring) or hell (sounds awfully long and unjust)? I want another choice!
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Old 01-05-2010, 07:19 AM   #99
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Wha??? Catholic isn't Christian? That makes no sense... Catholics were first... and the Protestants spun off from them... How can they be not Christian?

(Or is my Catholic upbringing painting history incorrectly?)
So what about who was first - my parents don't care. Catholics are not Christians according to them (and my sister). I don't exactly know why they believe that, but.... I don't care enough to find out (not about to actually encourage them to talk about religion!!!!!!!!!!!!). But it isn't just the Catholics; they (my parents and sister) also believe that Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. aren't Christians either. My mom actually once referred to the Jehovah's Witnesses as "Satan's Witnesses"!!!
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Old 01-05-2010, 07:20 AM   #100
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WOW! A Catholic preist saying there may not be a hell! I can understand the church changing to adapt to social norms, but to change a basic foundational pillar of the church...I just don't know what to say...I'm shocked.
I think most mainstream theologians discount a lot of things in the bible. It's just that the priests can't say it in church because the conservatives would raise hell with the bishops for any change. And the higher ups don't have any power over anyone if no one believes the stuff. I think church would be much more insteresting if people could really discuss this stuff.

They try to say the church never changes. However, it has changed. For one thing, papal infallibility didn't come about until the later 1800's. (correct me if I'm wrong) When the pope lost control of the papal states and Italy become a country he no longer had temporal power so he had to get himself more religious power.

Yes, all this knowledge I have acquired makes me see more and more why religion is superstition.
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Old 01-05-2010, 07:22 AM   #101
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I'm often amazed by how every religion condemns non-believers to some form of eternal punishment if they don't believe exactly as they do. Do they believe in god because of faith or fear of punishment? What is so wrong with "no longer existing" after you die? Do I only have the choice of eternity in heaven (sounds awfully long and boring) or hell (sounds awfully long and unjust)? I want another choice!
Hah! Good point. Reincarnation, anyone?!
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Old 01-05-2010, 07:30 AM   #102
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I'm often amazed by how every religion condemns non-believers to some form of eternal punishment if they don't believe exactly as they do. Do they believe in god because of faith or fear of punishment? What is so wrong with "no longer existing" after you die? Do I only have the choice of eternity in heaven (sounds awfully long and boring) or hell (sounds awfully long and unjust)? I want another choice!
Actually, I have the vague impression that the hell of the Jehovah's Witnesses IS just non-existance. I could be wrong though.

I think most of them who gladly believe on their own (needed little convincing, etc.) believe because of faith. I think hell is there to motivate them to harass the non-believers.

The belief in hell is having an effect on my darling 5-year-old nephew. My sister has been teaching him to refrain from asking me to go to church and to read the Bible (which he used to do). I know he does it 'cause he doesn't want me to go to hell. This last visit, on our last day, he couldn't help himself and asked me "if [ I ] was a Christian yet." *grin* And because he is soooooo sweet and adorable and I love him soooooooooooooo much, I restrained myself from saying "are you an atheist yet?" (I just said "no.")

My friend from high school said she just likes to believe and that the church she and I went to (back in our high school days) made her into who she is today (and she meant this in a good way). I asked her about hell, and she said she read that in the Bible, rolled her eyes and simply thought "oh, THAT can't be true". So she believes just 'cause of faith, and even better, since she doesn't believe in hell, she witnesses to no one; not even to her own mother (and not to me! *happy dance*)
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:23 AM   #103
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I think most mainstream theologians discount a lot of things in the bible. It's just that the priests can't say it in church because the conservatives would raise hell with the bishops for any change. And the higher ups don't have any power over anyone if no one believes the stuff. I think church would be much more insteresting if people could really discuss this stuff.

They try to say the church never changes. However, it has changed. For one thing, papal infallibility didn't come about until the later 1800's. (correct me if I'm wrong) When the pope lost control of the papal states and Italy become a country he no longer had temporal power so he had to get himself more religious power.

Yes, all this knowledge I have acquired makes me see more and more why religion is superstition.
I didn't even realize it was that recent. A pope has apparently used the Ex Cathedra infallibility thing only once since 1870 when it was set out. That was in 1950. There are a bunch of requirements for something to be done "ex cathedra."

Boring stuff but there's some on Wiki that's short and sweet if anyone wants to read it.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:34 PM   #104
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I have determined that I am sending Samhain cards instead of Halloween cards this year. I am starting early to find the stamps I need. Does anyone knew where I can get a "Samhain" stamp?
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Old 01-31-2010, 06:08 AM   #105
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Hmmm, I googled it and found this:
http://www.zazzle.com/happy_samhain_...76142206584734
I know it is a postage stamp, not a rubber stamp, but it seems like many of the Samhain images could be Halloween images too. Maybe the difference is too slight, like Yule vs Christmas??
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Old 01-31-2010, 07:21 AM   #106
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I found this Samhain Greetings stamp http://www.larubberworks.com/stmph1.html It's in the second group of stamps listed on that page.
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Old 01-31-2010, 08:46 AM   #107
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I found this Samhain Greetings stamp http://www.larubberworks.com/stmph1.html It's in the second group of stamps listed on that page.

Thank you. That is exactly the type of thing I was looking for.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:31 AM   #108
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According to the extremely pushy and intrusive uber-religious ex neighbors on whose street I once had the great misfortune to live, Catholics aren't Christian because they worship Mary and the saints instead of Jesus, so Catholics are therefore pagan and offensive to God.

As someone who'd converted to Catholicism, this was news to me, but providing them with details of Catholic theology didn't seem to dampen their urgings that I remove the St Francis statue from my front garden immediately.

For the record, they also thought my herb garden was 'satanic.' Yup, I make quite a demonic plate of pasta with fresh basil and a sprig of rosemary on the side...
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Old 01-31-2010, 01:50 PM   #109
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According to the extremely pushy and intrusive uber-religious ex neighbors on whose street I once had the great misfortune to live, Catholics aren't Christian because they worship Mary and the saints instead of Jesus, so Catholics are therefore pagan and offensive to God.

As someone who'd converted to Catholicism, this was news to me, but providing them with details of Catholic theology didn't seem to dampen their urgings that I remove the St Francis statue from my front garden immediately.

For the record, they also thought my herb garden was 'satanic.' Yup, I make quite a demonic plate of pasta with fresh basil and a sprig of rosemary on the side...
That part cracks me up!!

In all my years of attending a Catholic church, can't say I heard that argument before!
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Old 01-31-2010, 02:13 PM   #110
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According to the extremely pushy and intrusive uber-religious ex neighbors on whose street I once had the great misfortune to live, Catholics aren't Christian because they worship Mary and the saints instead of Jesus, so Catholics are therefore pagan and offensive to God.

As someone who'd converted to Catholicism, this was news to me, but providing them with details of Catholic theology didn't seem to dampen their urgings that I remove the St Francis statue from my front garden immediately.

For the record, they also thought my herb garden was 'satanic.' Yup, I make quite a demonic plate of pasta with fresh basil and a sprig of rosemary on the side...
LOL!!!

I do remember explaining the distinction to DH when we got married. I guess it might look like Catholics worship idols, when they pray before statues, so I explained that they are asking for supposedly holy dead people to intercede in their behalf. Perhaps a fine distinction, but important!!

My dad was big into lighting candles whenever any of us had problems. So I lit one for him at a monastery outside Barcelona when we toured.
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:29 AM   #111
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For the record, they also thought my herb garden was 'satanic.' Yup, I make quite a demonic plate of pasta with fresh basil and a sprig of rosemary on the side...
So funny! Silly evangelicals!
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:00 PM   #112
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Guess what I found out about a co-worker????!!! We were talking and got around to the topic of religion - he said he was NOT a Christian, and I said I was an atheist (I'm too lazy to say "agnostic with atheist leanings") and he said he was not an atheist. I asked him what he was, and he said he was a WITCH!!! *grinning* The first witch ever that I've met in REAL LIFE (vs online)!! I asked if he was Wiccan, but he said no, that was more like organized religion - he was simply a witch. I asked him what holidays he celebrated and he said Halloween!!! One of my FAVOURITE holidays!!!
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:17 PM   #113
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That's pretty interesting, Sophie. Variety - the spice of life!

I don't know if I've ever met a witch in person. Heck, my atheist friend didn't let on for over a year.
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Old 02-04-2010, 04:12 AM   #114
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For the record, they also thought my herb garden was 'satanic.' Yup, I make quite a demonic plate of pasta with fresh basil and a sprig of rosemary on the side...
Jane what a hoot!!!!

I can see it now....Devil's Dill, Satanic Sage...etc...etc!
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Old 02-05-2010, 09:33 AM   #115
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Guess what I found out about a co-worker????!!! We were talking and got around to the topic of religion - he said he was NOT a Christian, and I said I was an atheist (I'm too lazy to say "agnostic with atheist leanings") and he said he was not an atheist. I asked him what he was, and he said he was a WITCH!!! *grinning* The first witch ever that I've met in REAL LIFE (vs online)!! I asked if he was Wiccan, but he said no, that was more like organized religion - he was simply a witch. I asked him what holidays he celebrated and he said Halloween!!! One of my FAVOURITE holidays!!!
How interesting! There was a witch on What Not to Wear a couple of weeks ago--she lived in Salem, MA and was a psychic who wore witch costumes all the time. I kept wondering what it meant to be a witch. I've known a couple of Wiccans, but never a witch. Still curious exactly what that means...
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Old 02-05-2010, 12:20 PM   #116
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Jane what a hoot!!!!

I can see it now....Devil's Dill, Satanic Sage...etc...etc!
OMG!!! You could start a stamping company with colors that are the antithesis of SU!'s.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:16 PM   #117
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How interesting! There was a witch on What Not to Wear a couple of weeks ago--she lived in Salem, MA and was a psychic who wore witch costumes all the time. I kept wondering what it meant to be a witch. I've known a couple of Wiccans, but never a witch. Still curious exactly what that means...
Next time I'll ask him. I don't see him very often. He's in another department. I think our break times are different. I see him mostly at the end of my day. The first time we talked, he asked me to draw a skull and crossbones for him on his spray bottle, which I immediately did with a marker. The second time we talked is when he said he was a witch but not a Wiccan. He did say that anytime I wanted to know what it meant to be a witch...at which point I immediately asked what holidays he celebrated, and he said Halloween! I have the vague impression he also said that he believes that there IS a higher power (he said that when he said he was NOT an atheist)... hmmmm. I'm guessing he'll say something about nature and being spiritual. I'll come back to report when I've gotten the chance to ask.

I LOVE What Not To Wear!!!!!!! I SO miss TV now!! Can't find full episodes of them online!
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Old 02-14-2010, 07:42 AM   #118
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Okay, I talked to my witch co-worker briefly again. My memory is kinda fuzzy, but I THINK this is what he said about his beliefs:

Doesn't believe in harming anyone.
Believes in spells and hexes.
Closest to harming someone he can come is to hex (charm, put a spell on?? forgot what terminology he used) them so if THEY wish something bad on someone, whatever they wish will come back on them three times as badly.
Believes that if he concentrates enough and practices enough, he can visualize an object in a specific place - the example he gave was, one can think of a real clock somewhere, and continue to concentrate (or meditate or whatever; forgot terminology) on it over time, and then after a long while, if one wants to know the time, all they have to do is visualize that clock at that very moment and then they can see what that clock actually says. I have the impression that he's tried this, 'cause right after he gave that example he said he'll look at an actual clock and compare it to what his visualized clock said.
I don't quite exactly remember what else he said. We only spoke for a few minutes. I'll post more as I talk to him more. I don't see him around very often.

ETA: Ah! I also asked if there were spells to seduce someone. *grin* He said yes, but one has to be careful because sometimes the seduced person gets too possessive.
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Old 02-14-2010, 04:35 PM   #119
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OMG!!! You could start a stamping company with colors that are the antithesis of SU!'s.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Omigoodness that would be funny!
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:33 AM   #120
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Do you remember that movie, Supersize Me? That guy had a show on FX called 30 Days where people spend a month with other people who have a belief or lifystyle that is different from theirs. They are really fascinating, and DH and I watched some of the first season episodes (the minimum wage one is heartbreaking).

Well, I am developing a pretty strong Hulu addiction and I found that they have the entire series, and that there was an episode where an atheist spent a month with a christian family. The episode is really interesting, and I found myself talking to the computer several times during the show. The episode is 45 minutes and you do have to have a username because it is for mature audiences (I'm not sure why), but it is really interesting if you have the time to watch it.

You can find it here
http://www.hulu.com/watch/56912/30-d...heistchristian
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