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Old 07-28-2011, 05:38 AM   #1121
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Quote of the Day

Quote:
RELIGION IS LIKE A PENI$.
It's fine to have one.
It's fine to be proud of it.
But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around,
and PLEASE don't try to shove it down my children's throats.
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:46 AM   #1122
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And a video of the day, for your enjoyment: ‪Why Don't Bees Go to Heaven? HQ (man created god) AKA The Rational Anthem‬‏ - YouTube
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:32 AM   #1123
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Thanks for both of those chuckles Alyson and Ireland, though I am going to have that song stuck in my head for the next three days.

My mom was staying with my family for a couple days and we saw an advertisement for Harry Potter. My kids were talking about seeing it and my mom was grumbling about the movie (she is a fundie) under her breath. At that point I realized that the bible is full of examples of magic (the burning bush, healing, virgin birth and the biggie... coming back to life) I found it amusing that the thing she was grumbling about is the very thing that she believes in. At least with hp it doesn't pretend to be anything but fiction.

Of course I said nothing because I love my mother dearly and she respects me enough (or has just given up) not to engage me in her religious existence even though she sneaks in a grumble every now and then. She is 90 and her beliefs don't bother me the way they use to because I am just as sure of my point of view as she is of hers.

Anyone else have magic examples?
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:42 AM   #1124
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Quote of the Day
RELIGION IS LIKE A PENI$.

I wish I knew who came up with that.
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:57 AM   #1125
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Fun song! Thanks!

On an entirely different note... I went to a Catholic funeral on Tuesday (I was raised Catholic). It's been about 10 years since I have been to a religious function. I questioned whether I should go at all but decided to show my support to the people and not the beliefs.

I was surprised how easily all the prayer responses and hymns came back to me after so long a time. I actually had to hold myself back from speaking/singing at a couple points. Interesting experience ... I'm just kind of amazed at how the traditions are so deeply ingrained. It was very obvious how comforting the prayers etc. can be with everyone praying and singing together.

Anybody else have a similar experience?
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:18 PM   #1126
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Fun song! Thanks!

On an entirely different note... I went to a Catholic funeral on Tuesday (I was raised Catholic). It's been about 10 years since I have been to a religious function. I questioned whether I should go at all but decided to show my support to the people and not the beliefs.

I was surprised how easily all the prayer responses and hymns came back to me after so long a time. I actually had to hold myself back from speaking/singing at a couple points. Interesting experience ... I'm just kind of amazed at how the traditions are so deeply ingrained. It was very obvious how comforting the prayers etc. can be with everyone praying and singing together.

Anybody else have a similar experience?
Yes, in February. I too, had to struggle to stay quiet. I knew nobody would notice, I just tipped my head down a little and didn't participate. Same thing, Catholic funeral and I grew up Catholic.

When my dad died in 2007, that was interesting because of course I was family and in the first row and the priest brought communion to us. So I'm thinking, OH, I can't take communion, I haven't been to confession... then I thought, what the heck are you thinking? It's a wafer. I knew my family wasn't aware of my (fairly new found) atheism, for the most part, and it would have been more disruptive to refuse. I certainly did not want to make the service about me. So I took it.

And lightning did not strike me down.
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:25 PM   #1127
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Thanks for both of those chuckles Alyson and Ireland, though I am going to have that song stuck in my head for the next three days.

My mom was staying with my family for a couple days and we saw an advertisement for Harry Potter. My kids were talking about seeing it and my mom was grumbling about the movie (she is a fundie) under her breath. At that point I realized that the bible is full of examples of magic (the burning bush, healing, virgin birth and the biggie... coming back to life) I found it amusing that the thing she was grumbling about is the very thing that she believes in. At least with hp it doesn't pretend to be anything but fiction.

Of course I said nothing because I love my mother dearly and she respects me enough (or has just given up) not to engage me in her religious existence even though she sneaks in a grumble every now and then. She is 90 and her beliefs don't bother me the way they use to because I am just as sure of my point of view as she is of hers.

Anyone else have magic examples?
Personally, I find technology to be magic.

My DH and DS would probably disagree!!!!

You know, I was thinking how some people easily dismiss science and archeology and geology etc., claiming we are being tested or the devil did it, or some such. And you know the old saying, any technology advanced enough looks like magic. I was wondering HOW people could dismiss so much, and I thought - they don't know. They haven't studied any of it, they have no idea about the years of research involved, the intricate work done in analysis and comparison, and how new things aren't just arbitrarily decided - things are built on a base of knowledge.

It would be like walking into Abby's lab on NCIS and trying to do her job without her education. Magic.

I don't know how true that is, but I can't think of any other explanation that makes sense to me.
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:25 PM   #1128
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And Ireland, thanks for the poem. I already shared it with an old friend.
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:35 PM   #1129
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Yes, in February. I too, had to struggle to stay quiet. I knew nobody would notice, I just tipped my head down a little and didn't participate. Same thing, Catholic funeral and I grew up Catholic.

When my dad died in 2007, that was interesting because of course I was family and in the first row and the priest brought communion to us. So I'm thinking, OH, I can't take communion, I haven't been to confession... then I thought, what the heck are you thinking? It's a wafer. I knew my family wasn't aware of my (fairly new found) atheism, for the most part, and it would have been more disruptive to refuse. I certainly did not want to make the service about me. So I took it.

And lightning did not strike me down.
Hah! I'm glad you weren't struck down! I don't know what I would have done if I had been offered communion when family didn't know I no longer believed. I sat way in the back and felt very evil for not kneeling, Lol! 2007 is when I left religion behind, too! Fortunately, my parents were already gone at that point so I didn't have that issue. I plan to tell people to have a party and have me cremated and have my ashes scattered. I have no illusions about kids or grandkids visiting my grave.
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:36 PM   #1130
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Hah! I'm glad you weren't struck down! I don't know what I would have done if I had been offered communion when family didn't know I no longer believed. I sat way in the back and felt very evil for not kneeling, Lol! 2007 is when I left religion behind, too! Fortunately, my parents were already gone at that point so I didn't have that issue. I plan to tell people to have a party and have me cremated and have my ashes scattered. I have no illusions about kids or grandkids visiting my grave.
I just quietly went along with everything in 2007. I guess I'd been an atheist for a couple of years but hadn't said anything to family. It's easy when they live 2800 miles away.

My dad was the most religious, in a very unquestioning way. I know some of his WWII experiences contributed to that. When he retired, he went to Mass 6 days a week. Mom wasn't like that - she's a thinker, and I think it's more habit than anything else that keeps her. I had taken a book I was reading with me on a visit early in 2007, "The God Delusion." Dad never saw it, but mom did. She said, "Oh I have that on reserve at the library." Surprised the heck out of me. She's willing to think and question.

One sister is very religious, works in administration at a Catholic University, lots of nuns around. She's not the nicest sister, though, interestingly enough. My little sister is not at ALL religious (although she says she does believe in God), and she's the sweetest, most kind hearted person, never has two nickels to rub together, yet is the most generous spirit. My brother is also not at all religious, though he "thinks" he believes in God. His daughter, however, does not. I only found that out in the past year - when she told me. My brother visited last August and she contacted me later to tell me I was a cool aunt. I was surprised, because my religious sister really spoiled her when she was growing up, invited her to spend a week with her every summer, took her horseback riding, etc. (This sister never married, no kids.) My niece finally recognized the "issues" this sister has, attitude, how she treats people, and doesn't want much to do with her. Surprised the heck out of me. At least I'm not the only atheist in the family.
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:23 AM   #1131
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I just quietly went along with everything in 2007. I guess I'd been an atheist for a couple of years but hadn't said anything to family. It's easy when they live 2800 miles away.

My dad was the most religious, in a very unquestioning way. I know some of his WWII experiences contributed to that. When he retired, he went to Mass 6 days a week. Mom wasn't like that - she's a thinker, and I think it's more habit than anything else that keeps her. I had taken a book I was reading with me on a visit early in 2007, "The God Delusion." Dad never saw it, but mom did. She said, "Oh I have that on reserve at the library." Surprised the heck out of me. She's willing to think and question.

One sister is very religious, works in administration at a Catholic University, lots of nuns around. She's not the nicest sister, though, interestingly enough. My little sister is not at ALL religious (although she says she does believe in God), and she's the sweetest, most kind hearted person, never has two nickels to rub together, yet is the most generous spirit. My brother is also not at all religious, though he "thinks" he believes in God. His daughter, however, does not. I only found that out in the past year - when she told me. My brother visited last August and she contacted me later to tell me I was a cool aunt. I was surprised, because my religious sister really spoiled her when she was growing up, invited her to spend a week with her every summer, took her horseback riding, etc. (This sister never married, no kids.) My niece finally recognized the "issues" this sister has, attitude, how she treats people, and doesn't want much to do with her. Surprised the heck out of me. At least I'm not the only atheist in the family.
You never know how what you do or say is going to make an impression on other people.

I have 3 brothers. 2 are still RC and one believes in God but doesn't attend church. My kids are both atheists but don't think about it too much, although I find it a little weird that my son goes with his girlfriend to teach Sunday School for small children. Maybe he just likes being around kids. I suspect more than one of my nieces and nephews are are unbelievers too but keep it quiet for family harmony.
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Old 07-29-2011, 12:10 PM   #1132
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You never know how what you do or say is going to make an impression on other people.

I have 3 brothers. 2 are still RC and one believes in God but doesn't attend church. My kids are both atheists but don't think about it too much, although I find it a little weird that my son goes with his girlfriend to teach Sunday School for small children. Maybe he just likes being around kids. I suspect more than one of my nieces and nephews are are unbelievers too but keep it quiet for family harmony.
When I finally realized I was an atheist, I did tell my children. DS admitted he's been one forever, and DD said, "That's not the kind of thing one usually hears from their 55 year old mother" then said she thinks she's agnostic, not quite sure if she's atheist.

DH believes but neither he nor his parents were ever religious at all. In fact, I actually remember asking him years ago if he believed in God! (He said yes, and seemed surprised I asked!)
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Old 07-30-2011, 03:48 AM   #1133
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In regards to TigerLily's question...

I guess I'm kind of an oddball here in that I consider myself atheist/agnostic not because I changed my mind about religion, but because it simply isn't a part of my life.

Unlike nearly everyone I've ever discussed atheism with, I didn't start out as a Catholic/Christian/etc etc. My parents were of the "Summer of Love" generation and made a decision early on that they would raise their children without religion. So I've never had that period of childhood where church and religion were part of my life.

We were raised to do the right thing, for no other reason than that was what was expected. Religion, and the widespread acceptance and passion about it are still, I admit, baffling to me.

I understand the comfort, peace of mind, support, acceptance, etc a church or religion could bring to a person, but I find I get that from the circle of friends I've worked to cultivate in my life, so religion for me is fascinating to learn about but holds no allure.

The part that bothers me, and why I participate in discussions like this, is why does condescension and judgmental behavior seem so prevalent from a large percentage of the most religious and devout? I've never understood it, but am drawn to the pattern like a train wreck I can't look away from. Whether my issue is with being judged negatively because I don't believe in a god - when I honestly feel like I live my life with the goal of treating everyone with respect and kindness, or if the concept of believing in an invisible "god" is so hard for me to wrap my mind around that I keep trying to make sense of it (how/why do so many in such a technologically and educationally advanced society so vehemently believe in such a thing?).

Not sure, but I guess my short answer could have been that "NO" haha - I've never experienced that flood of memories of the tradition and habit of a former religion.
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Old 07-30-2011, 12:59 PM   #1134
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Ireland, one of my dear friends had a similar experience. Her parents were also of the hippie generation, and had nothing to do with religion. She said she's just always been an atheist.

But you are right how some are so judgmental, and it's pretty interesting because one of the things Jesus supposedly said, specifically, was "judge not lest you be judged."

I have to say, part of my de-conversion (just made that up) came from years of not thinking about it. I had been trying to involve my kids in church, but after an incident that turned me off, we pretty much just quit going. I really didn't even think about God or religion much for 7-8 years.

I realized it had made no difference to my life.

Then I started meeting people (in CE) who were fundamental Christians, and I realized that my Catholic education had been very different from theirs. I remember early on learning that the "seven days of creation" were man's way of describing it, that a day, to God, might mean a million years. I never had any problem with science and religion colliding. So it was amazing to me how these people interpreted things so differently. I still can't wrap my head around the dismissal of eons of evidence, by saying the devil planted it there - or whatever.

That was the catalyst that caused me to think harder about it, coupled with my realization that it made no difference in my daily life. And I met some very intelligent friends that turned out to be atheists. Very quiet ones, but I was amazed, as I'd never met anyone before that I knew was!!!!

I look back now and can see other influences that made me think - a lot of Star Trek episodes too! Ha ha ha Gene Roddenberry was obviously not a fan of religion.

From Wiki: "Although Roddenberry was raised as a Southern Baptist, he instead considered himself a humanist and agnostic. He saw religion as the cause of many wars and human suffering. Brannon Braga has said that Roddenberry made it known to the writers of Star Trek and Star Trek: The Next Generation that religion and mystical thinking were not to be included, and that in Roddenberry's vision of Earth's future, everyone was an atheist and better for it."
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Old 07-30-2011, 01:03 PM   #1135
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...i have those experiences everytime i have to go to a catholic wedding or funeral...and we didn't go to church that often...

...i always see christians at work (i work at mcdonalds) with their bibles and some of them blow me away with how they treat their children/spouse...i am an atheist and i treat people better than someone who calls themselves christians...blows me away....

...i love the ***** quote...i stole it and put it as my facebook status!! lol....
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Old 07-30-2011, 01:06 PM   #1136
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In response to Ireland's comment:

I have had the same experience growing up as Ireland in that I was bought up without religion as both my parents were atheists. However, unlike atheists in the US, I have not come across any prejudice for my lack of religion or even a chance to discuss it. Here in New Zealand we are lucky in that no one cares about ones religion or lack thereof, no one asks you what church you go to or assume you are Christian in any other way. In the 2006 census non-Christians made up nearly half the NZ population. Of those who did say they were Christian, only about 15% actually go to church. I am also surprised, appalled and somewhat scared when I hear evidence of judgemental behaviour of fanatical Christians in the US especially their influence on what is taught in schools.
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Old 07-30-2011, 01:38 PM   #1137
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Never thought about God, never believed in God. IN fact I think I've said it before in second grade I stopped saying "under God" while doing the pledge because I was aware enough to know that there were people of different faith right there in that very class.

I've gone to a few different churches for just different events none appealed to me and some down right offended me...you know, the one that basically said my sister was evil because she was gay and couldn't have children. LOL yeah about that....she could you know...imagine that fundie hypocrites, a lesbian having a child
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Old 07-31-2011, 04:38 AM   #1138
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...i always see christians at work (i work at mcdonalds) with their bibles and some of them blow me away with how they treat their children/spouse...i am an atheist and i treat people better than someone who calls themselves christians....
Yes.
I know people make mistakes, people can be forgiven, people can learn from mistakes, etc etc. I certainly don't expect all religious people to be perfect - but I do mind being pre-judged based on my lack of religion rather than the content of my character or actions. It is a form of discrimination which seems supported and encouraged in some churches and religions.

Religion shouldn't be worn like a badge.

When interviewing people, and they lead with - I'm a Christian - it immediately turns me off. I even had a car salesman lead with that and WOW did he ever lose a sale.

Being Christian is not a pass to being perceived as honest or elevated... character counts, and you need to earn that respect and understanding.


(I'm using Christian here as this is the religion I've found this to be widespread in (in my dealings with people) - and it is the highest percentage in my neck of the woods of religious people. It may be true of other religions, I just haven't experienced it.)
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Old 07-31-2011, 07:34 AM   #1139
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Religion shouldn't be worn like a badge.

When interviewing people, and they lead with - I'm a Christian - it immediately turns me off. I even had a car salesman lead with that and WOW did he ever lose a sale.

Being Christian is not a pass to being perceived as honest or elevated... character counts, and you need to earn that respect and understanding.
Absolutely! Here in the middle of the Bible belt, fish symbols are all over the yellow pages and sales flyers, as if the presence of that fish automatically makes the business the best one around. I find it offensive and shop elsewhere.
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:13 PM   #1140
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Absolutely! Here in the middle of the Bible belt, fish symbols are all over the yellow pages and sales flyers, as if the presence of that fish automatically makes the business the best one around. I find it offensive and shop elsewhere.
Also makes it easier to avoid doing business with heathens
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:55 PM   #1141
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Also makes it easier to avoid doing business with heathens
Ha ha ha ha ha Kind of makes me want to go into one of those places and ask if they do business with atheists.......
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Old 08-02-2011, 09:16 AM   #1142
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This is a pretty good essay on why atheists can be just as moral as theists.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:13 AM   #1143
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This is a pretty good essay on why atheists can be just as moral as theists.
Yes, he does a good job. This is my favorite part. It's something I wasn't familiar with.

...
Religious people can appreciate this by considering Plato's question: Do actions become moral simply because they're dictated by God, or are they dictated by God because they are moral? It doesn't take much thought to see that the right answer is the second one. Why? Because if God commanded us to do something obviously immoral, such as kill our children or steal, it wouldn't automatically become OK. Of course, you can argue that God would never sanction something like that because he's a completely moral being, but then you're still using some idea of morality that is independent of God. Either way, it's clear that even for the faithful, God cannot be the source of morality but at best a transmitter of some human-generated morality...
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:35 AM   #1144
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Kim, thanks. Very interesting.

Does it scare anyone else when people wonder how they'd behave without God? Does this mean they would be crazy psychopaths without the fear of hell? Do they have so little faith in themselves??
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:47 AM   #1145
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Does it scare anyone else when people wonder how they'd behave without God? Does this mean they would be crazy psychopaths without the fear of hell? Do they have so little faith in themselves??
I find this very scary. It is part of the twisted indoctrination of Christians that they don't have any faith in themselves without God. So naturally they can't believe atheists can be decent, good and moral.
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:14 PM   #1146
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I find this very scary. It is part of the twisted indoctrination of Christians that they don't have any faith in themselves without God. So naturally they can't believe atheists can be decent, good and moral.
Stephanie
Exactly!
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Old 08-02-2011, 02:01 PM   #1147
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Kim, thanks. Very interesting.

Does it scare anyone else when people wonder how they'd behave without God? Does this mean they would be crazy psychopaths without the fear of hell? Do they have so little faith in themselves??
YES!!
I've always found that baffling and frightening
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:06 AM   #1148
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Kim, thanks. Very interesting.

Does it scare anyone else when people wonder how they'd behave without God? Does this mean they would be crazy psychopaths without the fear of hell? Do they have so little faith in themselves??
I think maybe its because they are constantly bombarded with the ideas that' The devil made you do it', if they have done wrong, or that god guides them totally, when they do something right. They have no concept of personal choice, or personal responsibility. Equally, they seem incredibly agile at being able to twist whatever they do, no matter how wrong, immoral or evil, into being the 'will of god'. I suppose that really supports the crazy psycho theory- we can only assume that god tells them what his will is,and anybody hearing voices telling them what to do, must be nuts!
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Old 08-30-2011, 06:18 PM   #1149
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Wow, here's one I haven't heard before: an online church pastor thinks it's a fabulous idea to have an atheist registry.

Says he'd love to know how many of the 109,000 residents in his town are atheists, maybe see their pictures, so he and his fellow Christians can witness to them and tell them how wrong they are, and oh, so they can avoid businesses owned by atheists so as not to "feed Satan".

He also says he can't imagine why atheists wouldn't think it's a good idea, unless they're ashamed of being atheists. (psst, maybe it's because we don't want to be harassed by people like him?).

He took his blog private, but here's the Google cache: WELCOME TO PASTOR MIKE'S BLOG: Putting Atheists on a "National Registry" - What Say YOU ?

On the other hand, while we get to read the nutzy views of many more people, apparently the internet has been good for the spread of skepticism and atheism: On the Internet, Christianity is Losing By a Long Shot | Friendly Atheist
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:09 PM   #1150
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Alyson, the google cache no longer has it either. But I think I know why - a friend of mine posted it on FB earlier today and I saw it. I did notice that the post was from (I think) November 2010, so kind of dismissed it.

But I'd bet his blog got slammed today and that my friend wasn't the only one who posted it.

Yeah some of the things he said were just outrageous. He wants to know who the atheists are, and they should be on a register just like sex offenders and other criminals.

What a friggin nut case.
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Old 08-30-2011, 08:09 PM   #1151
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Alyson, your second link got me lost for an hour! Thank you!
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Old 08-30-2011, 08:12 PM   #1152
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Alyson, your second link got me lost for an hour! Thank you!
I pulled these two quotes from the comments:

Quote:
I may have become a very liberal Christian instead if there wasn't the Atheist community to be exposed to, but it was other Christians which provided the initial, major push to my de-conversion. i.e. The fundamentalists can be an Atheist's best friend.
and

Quote:
Fundies pushed me towards atheism too, as I recall...
Can I just say that my encounters with fundies right here on SCS pushed me to examine things I'd simply never thought about? I had already become a lapsed, non-religious, ex-Catholic, but I'd never thought about atheism. But these people did.
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Old 08-30-2011, 08:32 PM   #1153
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Alyson, the google cache no longer has it either. But I think I know why - a friend of mine posted it on FB earlier today and I saw it. I did notice that the post was from (I think) November 2010, so kind of dismissed it.

But I'd bet his blog got slammed today and that my friend wasn't the only one who posted it.

Yeah some of the things he said were just outrageous. He wants to know who the atheists are, and they should be on a register just like sex offenders and other criminals.

What a friggin nut case.
Here's a link to the blog where I read about this guy, with some direct quotes I confirmed came from the cached post: Pastor Wants National Registry for Atheists | Dispatches from the Culture Wars

Pastor Mike took his blog private - not sure why the google cache disappeared (it was there earlier), but then I don't know how google cache works, LOL.
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:00 PM   #1154
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Kathy,
The comments I pulled are:
Quote:
YouTube is too dangerous; try GodTube. Wikipedia is too liberal; use Conservapedia. Church remains the bubble in which rhetoric is exchanged; the bubble merely now extends to the web. The net result allows Christians to be “in the world but not of the world” and secularists to control the traffic flow on the largest thoroughfares of the information superhighway.
I just read a blog post by a Catholic who suggested (hopefully jokingly?) that she'd like to live in a Catholic-only enclave because she was offended by the sight of two women standing next to each other at a park, rubbing each other's backs, and two men bumping elbows and putting their faces close together at a pool, (she presumes both couples are gay) - she doesn't want to have to explain same-sex affection to her children.

OK, I see my job as helping my children understand the world as it is, not protecting them from any idea with which I don't agree. There are definitely subjects I wait to discuss with them until they ask, but I don't live in fear that they will ask... Even from a Catholic perspective I can't see this as an impossible discussion "Well, sweetheart, some men love men and some women love women, just like your dad and I love each other. Your dad and I (and our church) believe this isn't the right choice (or is sinful, or whatever). Do you have any other questions?".

The other one:
Quote:
It's not just atheists on the internet that are dangerous to Christians, it's also finding out there are other Christians with different beliefs. It makes it just that much harder to believe that your own church or priest has all the answers. Of course, you also run the risk of running into people of a different faith altogether.
To me, finding out more about all the differing schisms in Christianity, and how they developed (not to mention seeing the dozen tiny churches in each small town, because one church couldn't hold so many different opinions), plus the similarities between religious thinkers and philosophers - well, that awareness was key to me leaving all of them.
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:57 PM   #1155
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Originally Posted by AlysonRR View Post
Here's a link to the blog where I read about this guy, with some direct quotes I confirmed came from the cached post: Pastor Wants National Registry for Atheists | Dispatches from the Culture Wars

Pastor Mike took his blog private - not sure why the google cache disappeared (it was there earlier), but then I don't know how google cache works, LOL.
Yep. On one of the links I was following, I noted that somebody had undertaken a list of known (convicted) Christian sex-offenders and criminals in response, just to show how stupid it is. I mean seriously, who cares. It listed the name, affiliation and crime.

But of course, I have heard Christians say that such people "aren't real Christians." That's what I call the "no lose position" that many Christians put themselves in. If you sin and get caught, you obviously aren't a Christian, even if you have been going to church!

And to think that I was raised, "Church isn't for home saints, it's a hospital for sinners." But I think I had a very liberal Catholic upbringing.
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:00 AM   #1156
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Kathy,
The comments I pulled are:

I just read a blog post by a Catholic who suggested (hopefully jokingly?) that she'd like to live in a Catholic-only enclave because she was offended by the sight of two women standing next to each other at a park, rubbing each other's backs, and two men bumping elbows and putting their faces close together at a pool, (she presumes both couples are gay) - she doesn't want to have to explain same-sex affection to her children.

OK, I see my job as helping my children understand the world as it is, not protecting them from any idea with which I don't agree. There are definitely subjects I wait to discuss with them until they ask, but I don't live in fear that they will ask... Even from a Catholic perspective I can't see this as an impossible discussion "Well, sweetheart, some men love men and some women love women, just like your dad and I love each other. Your dad and I (and our church) believe this isn't the right choice (or is sinful, or whatever). Do you have any other questions?".

The other one:

To me, finding out more about all the differing schisms in Christianity, and how they developed (not to mention seeing the dozen tiny churches in each small town, because one church couldn't hold so many different opinions), plus the similarities between religious thinkers and philosophers - well, that awareness was key to me leaving all of them.
Yes! I saw those too!

I completely agree with your approach. You can't protect your kids. Look at Bristol Palin. So much for teaching abstinence only.

And with drugs, do you say nothing and hope nobody ever tempts them? Um, no sir. My kids got a good education. My DD is nearly 23 and has had maybe a half dozen drinks, and even when she takes one, she rarely finishes it. She's simply not interested. Same for DS, who will be 21 in about six months. They aren't afraid; they're strong-willed.
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Old 09-11-2011, 06:00 AM   #1157
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This has nothing to do with 9/11. It is rather from Stephen Jay Gould via Jerry Coyne's blog who was commenting on a Freedom From Religion piece about what would have been his 70th birthday yesterday.

We are here because one odd group of fishes had a peculiar fin anatomy that could transform into legs for terrestrial creatures; because the earth never froze entirely during an ice age; because a small and tenuous species, arising in Africa a quarter of a million years ago, has managed, so far, to survive by hook and by crook. We may yearn for a ‘higher answer’–but none exists.”
— Stephen J. Gould, interview, Life (December 198. Cited in Who’s Who in Hell edited by Warren Allen Smith.
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Old 09-11-2011, 07:54 AM   #1158
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Originally Posted by AlysonRR View Post
Kathy,
The comments I pulled are:

I just read a blog post by a Catholic who suggested (hopefully jokingly?) that she'd like to live in a Catholic-only enclave because she was offended by the sight of two women standing next to each other at a park, rubbing each other's backs, and two men bumping elbows and putting their faces close together at a pool, (she presumes both couples are gay) - she doesn't want to have to explain same-sex affection to her children.

OK, I see my job as helping my children understand the world as it is, not protecting them from any idea with which I don't agree. There are definitely subjects I wait to discuss with them until they ask, but I don't live in fear that they will ask... Even from a Catholic perspective I can't see this as an impossible discussion "Well, sweetheart, some men love men and some women love women, just like your dad and I love each other. Your dad and I (and our church) believe this isn't the right choice (or is sinful, or whatever). Do you have any other questions?".

The other one:

To me, finding out more about all the differing schisms in Christianity, and how they developed (not to mention seeing the dozen tiny churches in each small town, because one church couldn't hold so many different opinions), plus the similarities between religious thinkers and philosophers - well, that awareness was key to me leaving all of them.
Wait, wait, I um, kind of LIKE her idea. I myself have often wondered and daydreamed about how nice it would be if all the anti-gay people could live in one country and everyone else could live in the neighboring country. Then in my country, all gays could marry and be openly affectionate without fear of being harassed, and no one would be proselytizing to anyone else (I am making the broad assumption that pro-gay Christians are not the type to try to convert anyone). But of course whenever I cross over to the other country to visit my family, I'd keep my mouth shut too, and not speak badly of their viewpoints.

I know, I know, a lot of people say "well, the world would be a boring place if we all shared the same views". But I disagree. I think it would be a wonderful, non-boring place if everyone agreed that gays should have all the same rights that straights have.
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Old 09-12-2011, 03:45 PM   #1159
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I'm not really one to give two turds about what people do or say to a certain extreme. You have your beliefs and opinions I have mine.

BUT I realized by the end of yesterday with all the please reposts and crap on FB I was really irritated. There were a few too many "we said under GOd" and no one was offended posts and one too many GOD bless America posts and they just about made me blow my stack.

*I* was offended in second grade, what? At the age of 8? saying Under God in the pledge. I didn't say it. Still don't. We are not a nation under one God. Heck there are two churches and one Hindu temple within walking distance of my house. If there were one god there's be one building ya think?

Ok vent over.

Back to your regularly programmed intellectual conversations LOL
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Old 09-12-2011, 04:41 PM   #1160
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V, I pretty much didn't participate in anything for 9/11. We didn't watch anything, and I ignored everything on FB. (But I'm not on it that much anyway.)

I do get your point, I hadn't even thought of that. Yeah, if that were true, you'd think this country would be more united, instead of exceedingly divisive with so much nastiness, and with the gulf between those with money and those without, ever widening.
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