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Stephen Hawking -- the world-renowned theoretical physicist -- finds no room for heaven in his vision of the cosmos.
In an interview published Monday in The Guardian newspaper, the 69-year-old says the human brain is like a computer that will stop working when its components fail.
"There is no heaven or afterlife for broken-down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark," Hawking told the paper.
__________________ Kathy Wrose
I am frequently a victim of resistentialism (seemingly spiteful behavior manifested by inanimate objects).
An interesting point of view I hadn't considered before found HERE
Maybe I'm confused. The fear of death and the unknown is an old concept regarding the afterlife. The idea that the fear of pain after death (Paragraph 2) came before the religions and that caused the need for sacrifice myths seems kind of strange. I wish the writer had some links to back that up with. It doesn't really square with what I've read. Here's a short discussion of ancient religious beliefs.
Anybody else know anything about ancient cultures afterlife beliefs?
__________________
Martha
“The world is my country, all mankind is my brethren, and to do good is my religion.”- Thomas Paine
Great quote as repeated by Michael Nugent at World Atheist convention in Dublin. "Atheism is the arrogant belief that the world was not created entirely for our benefit! Source video. He has some other great comments in his intro to the convention.
__________________
Martha
“The world is my country, all mankind is my brethren, and to do good is my religion.”- Thomas Paine
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 95,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerlily55
Great quote as repeated by Michael Nugent at World Atheist convention in Dublin. "Atheism is the arrogant belief that the world was not created entirely for our benefit! Source video. He has some other great comments in his intro to the convention.
Loved it! Thanks!
__________________ Kathy Wrose
I am frequently a victim of resistentialism (seemingly spiteful behavior manifested by inanimate objects).
A friend of mine said she started studying "Science of Mind". I can't find much about it that isn't put out by the organization itself. Do any of you have any experience or opinions?
I was talking to her family member, who is concerned about it being a cult. She said "not one place in the Bible does God or Jesus ever have ANYTHING to do with science!", which is funny, because my thoughts were, "How dare they call this science!"
From the little bit that I've read, it just looked like cheese-ball affirmations and stuff, but I haven't looked that deeply, yet.
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 95,613
I've been reading a book, "Why People Believe Weird Things." One of the things he talks about is how, today, science is more important than, say, mythology. And yet we have people who believe all sorts of strange things. He noted how these new age beliefs refer to themselves in pseudo-scientific terms to make themselves sound more like they are real science. But they aren't.
I don't know anything specifically - couldn't find anything much on a quick look - so I don't know if it's more serious with this group, but it sounds to me like L Ron Hubbard and his Scientology - another non-science operation!
__________________ Kathy Wrose
I am frequently a victim of resistentialism (seemingly spiteful behavior manifested by inanimate objects).
A friend of mine said she started studying "Science of Mind". I can't find much about it that isn't put out by the organization itself. Do any of you have any experience or opinions?
I was talking to her family member, who is concerned about it being a cult. She said "not one place in the Bible does God or Jesus ever have ANYTHING to do with science!", which is funny, because my thoughts were, "How dare they call this science!"
From the little bit that I've read, it just looked like cheese-ball affirmations and stuff, but I haven't looked that deeply, yet.
Well here is why her family member thinks it's a cult. If you read the wiki entry on it, it sounds really new age-y despite the fact that the founding book was written in 1926 or something.
The group will probably take her money for books and classes and church support but I can't find any articles or blog posts saying it's evil.
__________________
Martha
“The world is my country, all mankind is my brethren, and to do good is my religion.”- Thomas Paine
Well here is why her family member thinks it's a cult. If you read the wiki entry on it, it sounds really new age-y despite the fact that the founding book was written in 1926 or something.
I looked up 'cult' and it is defined as a group that focusses on religious worship with an exclusive ideology and ritual practices.
I checked your 'here' link and as an atheist I would have to agree with the following Science of the Mind statements:
The bible is not the literal word of God.
There is no devil.
Heaven and Hell are not actual places.
There is no sin.
Of course, as an atheist I would go further and say there is no God either, but I would say that the Science of the Mind is considerably less 'cult-like' than Christianity with its religious symbols (cross), teachings (bible) and rituals (church services).
Stephanie
__________________ To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce my gallery
I looked up 'cult' and it is defined as a group that focusses on religious worship with an exclusive ideology and ritual practices.
I checked your 'here' link and as an atheist I would have to agree with the following Science of the Mind statements:
The bible is not the literal word of God.
There is no devil.
Heaven and Hell are not actual places.
There is no sin.
Of course, as an atheist I would go further and say there is no God either, but I would say that the Science of the Mind is considerably less 'cult-like' than Christianity with its religious symbols (cross), teachings (bible) and rituals (church services).
Stephanie
I should have been clearer. The link was to show why the Xtian relative thought it was a cult. As I said, to me it looks like a sort of new age-y group, or one that is trying to give people a replacement for traditional religion.
This excerpt from this Ernest Homes book sounds like someone trying to bring science into the equation although I don't think most scientists would consider his view of science acceptable. ...In his book The Science of Mind, Ernest Holmes stated "Religious Science is a correlation of laws of science, opinions of philosophy, and revelations of religion applied to human needs and the aspirations of man."...
Since they still believe in God and that god caused the universe they lose my vote.
__________________
Martha
“The world is my country, all mankind is my brethren, and to do good is my religion.”- Thomas Paine
The hospital where I work has a new policy regarding the flu vaccine. Before this, we could decline the flu shot (the reasons included religion, convenience, and some others that escape me) without repercussions. It was strongly encouraged that we all get the shot, but that was it.
But now we can no longer decline except with a note from our doctor or religious leader. I just wondered how your average atheist (exhibit A: me) would get a signature, as I don't have a religious leader. It won't be an issue since I get haven't missed a flu shot in years, but it did make me curious.
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 95,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by NwP
The hospital where I work has a new policy regarding the flu vaccine. Before this, we could decline the flu shot (the reasons included religion, convenience, and some others that escape me) without repercussions. It was strongly encouraged that we all get the shot, but that was it.
But now we can no longer decline except with a note from our doctor or religious leader. I just wondered how your average atheist (exhibit A: me) would get a signature, as I don't have a religious leader. It won't be an issue since I get haven't missed a flu shot in years, but it did make me curious.
Good question!
I suppose the main reason is religion....
__________________ Kathy Wrose
I am frequently a victim of resistentialism (seemingly spiteful behavior manifested by inanimate objects).
The hospital where I work has a new policy regarding the flu vaccine. Before this, we could decline the flu shot (the reasons included religion, convenience, and some others that escape me) without repercussions. It was strongly encouraged that we all get the shot, but that was it.
But now we can no longer decline except with a note from our doctor or religious leader. I just wondered how your average atheist (exhibit A: me) would get a signature, as I don't have a religious leader. It won't be an issue since I get haven't missed a flu shot in years, but it did make me curious.
I am very surprised that the flu shot is now considered practically mandatory. The flu shot only protects you against two or three of the worst strains of the influenza virus and these which are not necessarily the most common ones. If you are an averagely healthy adult, not elderly or with a compromised immune system then you actually aren't hugely at risk. Also having the shot often gives people a false sense of security as they think they are immune to the 'flu in general and that is not the case.
However I take your point that as an atheist you don't have the same options for opting out of the shot should you decide you don't want it, and that doesn't seem fair to me.
Stephanie
__________________ To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce my gallery
Don't know how the law stands with you, but that flu jab thing would be surely be 'forced treatment', if you cannot, or do not want, to provide the document they insist on? It would definitely not be enforceable over here.
The hospital where I work has a new policy regarding the flu vaccine. Before this, we could decline the flu shot (the reasons included religion, convenience, and some others that escape me) without repercussions. It was strongly encouraged that we all get the shot, but that was it.
But now we can no longer decline except with a note from our doctor or religious leader. I just wondered how your average atheist (exhibit A: me) would get a signature, as I don't have a religious leader. It won't be an issue since I get haven't missed a flu shot in years, but it did make me curious.
Our family doctor is an osteopath rather than an M.D., and he readily signed a medical waiver for vaccines that I chose not to give my kids on schedule. (The reason that he listed was "family history of vaccine reaction".) That was back before Texas changed the law to allow medical, religious, AND conscience waivers. Now I just get a form from the state and get it notarized.
I'll bet lots of doctors would give you a letter. Think osteopath, allergist, chiropractor, etc.
I just discovered this thread and am so excited. I am the sole atheist in a family of devout Mormons, and always feel very isolated. I actually live with my mother who is a fanatic Mormon. I am disabled and she is extremely generous to allow me to live with her, and I generally never complain. But I suspect you fellow atheists can appreciate how difficult this is, for both her and me. The bottom line is, I am never able to live authentically, ever, and it has taken a toll on me.
Papercrafting is how I cope. I love making cards, and I literally do it every waking moment. If I stop, my PTSD and depression slide in and take over. But, I have always felt like I never really fit into the papercrafting world, because I've found it full of Christians who believe they are obligated to try and convert me via their blog, or at my local Joann, etc.
Don't get me wrong. I accept all of this. If I choose to visit a person's blog, I am responsible for that, no one else. But it does get tiresome to be directed to a blog to see a card or project, only to be told to "Have a blessed day," without it occurring to that person that I might find it tiresome. I know, for a fact, that many of them would be offended if I said, at the end of every post, "Have a god-free day!"
I'm not saying I expect everyone to know what I do, or don't, find tiresome. I'm just saying I never feel like I fit in. So, I am excited to have found this group of intelligent women who happen to share my love of papercrafting as well as my atheism. Heck, I am ecstatic! While reading through this thread I felt something, I don't know, "ease" up a bit. I'm just used to being all alone in this, and never expected to find fellow atheists in a craft where I often feel so alone.
So, I look forward to reading more posts by all of you. Finding this thread made my day!
__________________ Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.
~~Walt Whitman
I just discovered this thread and am so excited. I am the sole atheist in a family of devout Mormons, and always feel very isolated. I actually live with my mother who is a fanatic Mormon. I am disabled and she is extremely generous to allow me to live with her, and I generally never complain. But I suspect you fellow atheists can appreciate how difficult this is, for both her and me. The bottom line is, I am never able to live authentically, ever, and it has taken a toll on me.
I'm not saying I expect everyone to know what I do, or don't, find tiresome. I'm just saying I never feel like I fit in. So, I am excited to have found this group of intelligent women who happen to share my love of papercrafting as well as my atheism. Heck, I am ecstatic! While reading through this thread I felt something, I don't know, "ease" up a bit. I'm just used to being all alone in this, and never expected to find fellow atheists in a craft where I often feel so alone.
So, I look forward to reading more posts by all of you. Finding this thread made my day!
Hey There! Glad you found us. I think most of us experienced the same sense of relief you felt when you found this thread. You must be very strong to be atheist in Utah! Do most people know you're an atheist?
Once in awhile we get a christian wandering in who is appalled to find this thread and wonders why it is allowed or something. Eventually they get the message that they don't have to be here and they leave us alone.
Looking forward to more posts from you.
Martha
__________________
Martha
“The world is my country, all mankind is my brethren, and to do good is my religion.”- Thomas Paine
I just discovered this thread and am so excited. I am the sole atheist in a family of devout Mormons, and always feel very isolated. I actually live with my mother who is a fanatic Mormon. I am disabled and she is extremely generous to allow me to live with her, and I generally never complain. But I suspect you fellow atheists can appreciate how difficult this is, for both her and me. The bottom line is, I am never able to live authentically, ever, and it has taken a toll on me.
Papercrafting is how I cope. I love making cards, and I literally do it every waking moment. If I stop, my PTSD and depression slide in and take over. But, I have always felt like I never really fit into the papercrafting world, because I've found it full of Christians who believe they are obligated to try and convert me via their blog, or at my local Joann, etc.
Don't get me wrong. I accept all of this. If I choose to visit a person's blog, I am responsible for that, no one else. But it does get tiresome to be directed to a blog to see a card or project, only to be told to "Have a blessed day," without it occurring to that person that I might find it tiresome. I know, for a fact, that many of them would be offended if I said, at the end of every post, "Have a god-free day!"
I'm not saying I expect everyone to know what I do, or don't, find tiresome. I'm just saying I never feel like I fit in. So, I am excited to have found this group of intelligent women who happen to share my love of papercrafting as well as my atheism. Heck, I am ecstatic! While reading through this thread I felt something, I don't know, "ease" up a bit. I'm just used to being all alone in this, and never expected to find fellow atheists in a craft where I often feel so alone.
So, I look forward to reading more posts by all of you. Finding this thread made my day!
Hi and welcome from New Zealand. I am so glad you have found us, in fact I remember how glad I was to find this thread as I also felt that the forum had a much greater Christian influence than I was expecting. So feel free to express how you feel - we will understand.
Stephanie
__________________ To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong. Joseph Chilton Pearce my gallery
Hello everyone- I used to post here quite regularly a couple of years back- then I got ill- after a major op - from which i anm still recovering- I am back and raring to go got back into my crafting and artwork, changed my job, feel more relaxed and life is generally better so anyone remember me lol???
Here's a thought.... has anyone considered that all this religious stuff could possibly come down to an early typographic error? I mean, it couldn't be easy chiselling stuff into stone, one slip & you have a whole new word!
This is what I mean:
God
Good
Hello everyone- I used to post here quite regularly a couple of years back- then I got ill- after a major op - from which i anm still recovering- I am back and raring to go got back into my crafting and artwork, changed my job, feel more relaxed and life is generally better so anyone remember me lol???
I tried to look for posts by you but only came up with the one from today so I guess it really has been a while. I don't remember you but then with my memory, that's not too surprising, lol! Glad you're recuperating and have the energy to post and craft!
__________________
Martha
“The world is my country, all mankind is my brethren, and to do good is my religion.”- Thomas Paine
Here's a thought.... has anyone considered that all this religious stuff could possibly come down to an early typographic error? I mean, it couldn't be easy chiselling stuff into stone, one slip & you have a whole new word!
This is what I mean:
God
Good
Devil
evil
Spot the similarities?
I get your point but I think that might apply more the other way. People who are getting disillusioned with religion might be going from god to good, instead of the other way around.
I can certainly understand the humans of the distant, scary, high mortality past wanting to believe in something that will protect them and allow them to see their loved ones again in an afterlife. Fortunately, knowledge and reason have allowed us to chip away at those beliefs. To me, it seems less scary these days to not have to believe in religion and angels and devils and everlasting torment by a "loving" god/dess
__________________
Martha
“The world is my country, all mankind is my brethren, and to do good is my religion.”- Thomas Paine
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 95,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by culpepper
Hello everyone- I used to post here quite regularly a couple of years back- then I got ill- after a major op - from which i anm still recovering- I am back and raring to go got back into my crafting and artwork, changed my job, feel more relaxed and life is generally better so anyone remember me lol???
I do!!! I remember you!!!!
I don't remember a lot (hey I'm old) but I remember the username!
__________________ Kathy Wrose
I am frequently a victim of resistentialism (seemingly spiteful behavior manifested by inanimate objects).
Location: burple dinosaurs are eating my buporoses
Posts: 30,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by rspetersen
I just discovered this thread and am so excited. I am the sole atheist in a family of devout Mormons, and always feel very isolated. I actually live with my mother who is a fanatic Mormon. I am disabled and she is extremely generous to allow me to live with her, and I generally never complain. But I suspect you fellow atheists can appreciate how difficult this is, for both her and me. The bottom line is, I am never able to live authentically, ever, and it has taken a toll on me.
Papercrafting is how I cope. I love making cards, and I literally do it every waking moment. If I stop, my PTSD and depression slide in and take over. But, I have always felt like I never really fit into the papercrafting world, because I've found it full of Christians who believe they are obligated to try and convert me via their blog, or at my local Joann, etc.
Don't get me wrong. I accept all of this. If I choose to visit a person's blog, I am responsible for that, no one else. But it does get tiresome to be directed to a blog to see a card or project, only to be told to "Have a blessed day," without it occurring to that person that I might find it tiresome. I know, for a fact, that many of them would be offended if I said, at the end of every post, "Have a god-free day!"
I'm not saying I expect everyone to know what I do, or don't, find tiresome. I'm just saying I never feel like I fit in. So, I am excited to have found this group of intelligent women who happen to share my love of papercrafting as well as my atheism. Heck, I am ecstatic! While reading through this thread I felt something, I don't know, "ease" up a bit. I'm just used to being all alone in this, and never expected to find fellow atheists in a craft where I often feel so alone.
So, I look forward to reading more posts by all of you. Finding this thread made my day!
RSPeterson, I LOVE your Walt Whitman quote. It's always been one of my favorites. Leaves of Grass is such a beautiful, rambling, thoughtful and observant poem. It's one of the most spiritual and beautiful things I've ever read.
__________________
Jane
'I've seen bad turn to good plenty of times. You just can't lose faith'.
--Leroy Jethro Gibbs
I want to recommend this video of the journalist Johann Hari speaking about the threat to free speech by religious fundamentalism (his examples are reactions from Islam).
One of the things he says is:
"A religious idea is an idea someone had a long time ago they claim to have received from god. That's it. It doesn't have a different status to other ideas. It is not surrounded by an electric wire fence called respect that none of us can cross. All people deserve respect, but not all ideas do."
Basically, his concern is that the right to criticize religious ideas is being challenged (and he has the death threats to prove it), that fundamentalists want to be "free to say whatever they want and the rest of us have to shut up and agree."
I just discovered this thread and am so excited. I am the sole atheist in a family of devout Mormons, and always feel very isolated. I actually live with my mother who is a fanatic Mormon. I am disabled and she is extremely generous to allow me to live with her, and I generally never complain. But I suspect you fellow atheists can appreciate how difficult this is, for both her and me. The bottom line is, I am never able to live authentically, ever, and it has taken a toll on me.
Papercrafting is how I cope. I love making cards, and I literally do it every waking moment. If I stop, my PTSD and depression slide in and take over. But, I have always felt like I never really fit into the papercrafting world, because I've found it full of Christians who believe they are obligated to try and convert me via their blog, or at my local Joann, etc.
Don't get me wrong. I accept all of this. If I choose to visit a person's blog, I am responsible for that, no one else. But it does get tiresome to be directed to a blog to see a card or project, only to be told to "Have a blessed day," without it occurring to that person that I might find it tiresome. I know, for a fact, that many of them would be offended if I said, at the end of every post, "Have a god-free day!"
I'm not saying I expect everyone to know what I do, or don't, find tiresome. I'm just saying I never feel like I fit in. So, I am excited to have found this group of intelligent women who happen to share my love of papercrafting as well as my atheism. Heck, I am ecstatic! While reading through this thread I felt something, I don't know, "ease" up a bit. I'm just used to being all alone in this, and never expected to find fellow atheists in a craft where I often feel so alone.
So, I look forward to reading more posts by all of you. Finding this thread made my day!
Hi, and welcome!
I too, come from a rather fanatic family. Fortunately, my brother is also atheist. Also, I don't have to live with my parents (fanatic Christians). I know a tiny bit of what you mean though. When I visit my sister, 24/7 I have to censor myself. Most of the censoring is curse words (for my niece and nephews), but the rest of it is hostile responses to religious stuff. It IS very taxing on me, and when I return home I sooooooo enjoy cursing and swearing away, as freely as I please.
I did visit my parents this morning, and they did not try to convert me. I guess after years and years of trying, they have decided it's okay to take a break (from witnessing to me) once in a while.
My sister does actually make an effort to ensure that I am not harassed (witnessed to, etc.) at her home, which does make my stay a lot more enjoyable than it would be otherwise. All that is required of me is to remain silent when she is teaching her children that mankind (and the earth) is only 6000 years old and did exist with the dinosaurs and that there is no global warming, etc. etc.
My 6-year-old nephew occasionally tries to convert me, and his attempts alternately amuse and irritate me, but I know he is trying NOT to witness to me, 'cause my sister has told him not to.
Amusing:
my nephew: If you don't believe in God, that's where you'll go! (referring to hell)
me: (enthusiastically and with great joy) That's RIGHT.
Not so amusing:
my nephew: Are you a Christian yet?
me: (biting my tongue HARD) You already know the answer to that. (what I wanted to say was "Are you an atheist yet?")
I do keep reminding myself that he IS only six years old and does not want me to burn in hell for all eternity. But every time I remind myself of that, I become more annoyed at Christianity itself and how it threw hell into the mix, to obligate its followers to harass the non-believers; at least the non-believers that they don't want to see end up in hell.
Another not-so-amusing exchange:
me: Wow, that was lucky.
my nephew: There IS no such thing as luck (implying that there are only blessings from God)
me: (biting my tongue and saying nothing. What I wanted to say was "there IS no such thing as God").
Perhaps you can find a not-so-fanatic Mormon to be friends with; one who does not feel the need to convert you. My favourite real-life stamper friend is actually a devout Catholic, but she never ever tries to convert me or ANYTHING. I actually did not even realize that she was religious until 6 months into our friendship!!
__________________
Faites l'amour, pas la guerre, ...ou alors, faites les deux : mariez vous !
Cards for troops and kids
Speaking of not accepting the overwhelming scientific evidence for global warming, I was thinking the other day how odd it is that the more religious on is the more apt one is to not accept it. You would think that with all the salivating over the "second coming" they would want global warming to be true so that it could contribute to the acceleration towards the end of the world.
Location: Aboard the Enterprise, watching NCIS reruns!
Posts: 95,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLaFontaine
Hi, and welcome!
I too, come from a rather fanatic family. Fortunately, my brother is also atheist. Also, I don't have to live with my parents (fanatic Christians). I know a tiny bit of what you mean though. When I visit my sister, 24/7 I have to censor myself. Most of the censoring is curse words (for my niece and nephews), but the rest of it is hostile responses to religious stuff. It IS very taxing on me, and when I return home I sooooooo enjoy cursing and swearing away, as freely as I please.
I did visit my parents this morning, and they did not try to convert me. I guess after years and years of trying, they have decided it's okay to take a break (from witnessing to me) once in a while.
My sister does actually make an effort to ensure that I am not harassed (witnessed to, etc.) at her home, which does make my stay a lot more enjoyable than it would be otherwise. All that is required of me is to remain silent when she is teaching her children that mankind (and the earth) is only 6000 years old and did exist with the dinosaurs and that there is no global warming, etc. etc.
My 6-year-old nephew occasionally tries to convert me, and his attempts alternately amuse and irritate me, but I know he is trying NOT to witness to me, 'cause my sister has told him not to.
Amusing:
my nephew: If you don't believe in God, that's where you'll go! (referring to hell)
me: (enthusiastically and with great joy) That's RIGHT.
Not so amusing:
my nephew: Are you a Christian yet?
me: (biting my tongue HARD) You already know the answer to that. (what I wanted to say was "Are you an atheist yet?")
I do keep reminding myself that he IS only six years old and does not want me to burn in hell for all eternity. But every time I remind myself of that, I become more annoyed at Christianity itself and how it threw hell into the mix, to obligate its followers to harass the non-believers; at least the non-believers that they don't want to see end up in hell.
Another not-so-amusing exchange:
me: Wow, that was lucky.
my nephew: There IS no such thing as luck (implying that there are only blessings from God)
me: (biting my tongue and saying nothing. What I wanted to say was "there IS no such thing as God").
Perhaps you can find a not-so-fanatic Mormon to be friends with; one who does not feel the need to convert you. My favourite real-life stamper friend is actually a devout Catholic, but she never ever tries to convert me or ANYTHING. I actually did not even realize that she was religious until 6 months into our friendship!!
The Catholics I know are thinkers. They don't just accept everything; they have critical thinking skills. I learned that God and the creation story were not at odds with evolution. I learned that the Bible said 7 days but we don't know what "a day" was for God. Although it does seem like the Catholic hierarchy has, in recent years, been heading the other direction......
But (for example), my mom at age 80, voted for Obama even though the church told her (and all Catholics) not to vote for anyone pro-choice. She decided that at least Democrats cared what happened AFTER the baby was born, too.
__________________ Kathy Wrose
I am frequently a victim of resistentialism (seemingly spiteful behavior manifested by inanimate objects).
27Likes
Atheists Arrogant?
no god talk there. 
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