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Old 12-25-2009, 09:16 AM   #41
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Hi Madge! Your name at the top of EEC is what pulled me into this thread. Hope your workin day is peaceful and there's a great meal and good company waiting for you later.

Off soon to DFF's to see her new grandbaby, yuck it up and eat too much.
A grandbaby!!! Not THAT's fun!

Actually, work is surprisingly busy today. And I do have a great meal waiting...mom is at my house cooking prime rib!

And after that...I am going to hog the Beatles Rock Band that I bought for the boys.

You all have a great day and sorry for the mini hijack. I just can't pass up an opportunity to rag on Notre Dame!
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Old 12-25-2009, 11:07 AM   #42
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Too late for this year, but is this what you're looking for?
https://rubbercottage.com/index.php?...chk=1&Itemid=1

I found it at a stamp convention, got it for a cat loving friend, then needed to go find it for myself. LOL!

(and if anyone makes a card with it that looks wonderful without taking 1000 hours to make, please let me know ... )
It looks like such a straight forward stamp. How come it took 1000 hours to make a card with it? You must have done something really elaborate.
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Old 12-25-2009, 11:58 AM   #43
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We had orange danish this morning, a tradition (the pop open tubes), and then opened gifts. DS is putting together my new cappucino maker. My Han Solo ornament is on the tree, as is the Klingon Cruiser ornament, and Star Trek Communicator.

My kids are 18 and 21 so no little ones. The dog did get into tearing some paper, when we balled it up and tossed it at him. ha ha ha I've got a turkey breast to stuff and will put that in soon, we'll eat around 6 I guess.

And we've got Christmas music playing.
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:58 PM   #44
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It looks like such a straight forward stamp. How come it took 1000 hours to make a card with it? You must have done something really elaborate.
LOL! Or maybe 500 duds and one reasonably passable but ridiculously involved card? You know how you have a pic in your head of the card you want to make but it just won't translate into reality? ... Yeah, it was a lot like that.

My vision is (was?) three jet black cats with red red bows, but discovered it needs something to balance the intensity somehow. Also, wanted to add a monk-script fancy 'O' sort of somethin-somethin to the 'come let us ignore you' and couldn't find anything that would balance.* Ended up with something I was reasonably happy with, did the cut and layer thing so the window frame sits on top of the base and the cats & ledge sit on top of that. Took most of a day and a lot of CS that got tossed into recycle or just plain tossed. At least I got to play with my Copics ...



(btw, was that the stamp you were looking for? )

* We have a wonderful LSS that will help you make that 'exactly right' stamp and I might just go see them for this one. They're amazing!
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Old 12-25-2009, 09:53 PM   #45
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LOL! Or maybe 500 duds and one reasonably passable but ridiculously involved card? You know how you have a pic in your head of the card you want to make but it just won't translate into reality? ... Yeah, it was a lot like that.

My vision is (was?) three jet black cats with red red bows, but discovered it needs something to balance the intensity somehow. Also, wanted to add a monk-script fancy 'O' sort of somethin-somethin to the 'come let us ignore you' and couldn't find anything that would balance.* Ended up with something I was reasonably happy with, did the cut and layer thing so the window frame sits on top of the base and the cats & ledge sit on top of that. Took most of a day and a lot of CS that got tossed into recycle or just plain tossed. At least I got to play with my Copics ..


(btw, was that the stamp you were looking for? )

* We have a wonderful LSS that will help you make that 'exactly right' stamp and I might just go see them for this one. They're amazing!
Yes, that is the stamp. I like your idea of layering the ledge and cats on top ofthe window. Mind if I "aquire" your idea?

So many members of my cat card club are talking about getting the stamp that we thought it would be interesting to set up an album on the site showing all the different cards we came up with.
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Old 12-26-2009, 03:57 AM   #46
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Yes, that is the stamp. I like your idea of layering the ledge and cats on top ofthe window. Mind if I "aquire" your idea?

So many members of my cat card club are talking about getting the stamp that we thought it would be interesting to set up an album on the site showing all the different cards we came up with.
I don't know that it's mine to acquire, but absolutely! If you are able to set up an album, I would love it if you'd pm me with that link, I can use all the ideas for that stamp, myself! Happy stamping!
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Old 12-26-2009, 09:02 PM   #47
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The article on using the Santa Claus myth as a "dry run" was brilliant; thank you for sharing that. My husband and I are both atheists and although we don't have children, this was a wonderful insight to enlightening children to make their own decisions on what does and does not "make sense" in their worlds.

I'm new to the forums and just found this thread - so, aside from that, hello to you all.
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Old 12-27-2009, 06:15 AM   #48
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If anyone will know where to find this stamp it will be a bunch of atheists an agnostics.

A member of a cat card club I belong to received a card showing four cats from behind looking out a snowy window with the saying, "O Come Let Us Ignore You". She is dying to get one. Has anyone seen it or know where it can be had? Surely at least one of our many atheists and agnostics has snapped that one up.
Send a PM to jeaniebean55. She sent me some of those images.
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Old 12-27-2009, 06:24 AM   #49
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Send a PM to jeaniebean55. She sent me some of those images.
I didn't read the whole thread to see that Jeaniebean had answered your question. Oh well. At least now I found the new thread.
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Old 12-27-2009, 06:24 AM   #50
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Send a PM to jeaniebean55. She sent me some of those images.



ETA: LOL! TL, we were posting at the same time. And yes ... I'm getting off now and getting to work ... smirk ...
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Old 12-27-2009, 06:26 AM   #51
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The article on using the Santa Claus myth as a "dry run" was brilliant; thank you for sharing that. My husband and I are both atheists and although we don't have children, this was a wonderful insight to enlightening children to make their own decisions on what does and does not "make sense" in their worlds.

I'm new to the forums and just found this thread - so, aside from that, hello to you all.
Welcome. Visit any time! Tell us about your (non)spiritual journey.
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:10 PM   #52
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The article on using the Santa Claus myth as a "dry run" was brilliant; thank you for sharing that. My husband and I are both atheists and although we don't have children, this was a wonderful insight to enlightening children to make their own decisions on what does and does not "make sense" in their worlds.

I'm new to the forums and just found this thread - so, aside from that, hello to you all.

Welcome to the forums!!
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Old 12-27-2009, 05:19 PM   #53
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My story? Well... I was raised Roman Catholic and it never really worked for me as a child. I was always asking who created God, since God was said to have created everything. It just didn't add up to my little brain.

Of course, having gone to Catholic school my whole life, the sacraments were just another part of our academics... communion was grade two, reconciliation was grade four, confirmation was grade six. It was literally put right into the curriculum. So, I was confirmed when I was 11 without really understanding what it was or what it meant. Once I got a little bit older, around 13 or 14, I really started to stand my ground on my lack of belief; my parents understood and were supportive of my choice and that was the end of my church-going days (except for weddings, funerals, etc.) The older I've gotten, the stronger my belief that there isn't a god has become.

I often think how nice, easy, and clean it would be to believe in god. I hate the feeling that when you're dead, you're dead. I hate thinking that when loved ones pass, I'll never see them again and they're just dead and gone forever. It would be so much nicer to believe in a higher being taking care of us, a planned life for everyone and a reason for everything, and a life after death where everything is perfect and everyone is reunited... but I don't.

My parents have both turned away from the church in later years; they both still identify as Christian but are no longer comfortable supporting the Catholic church in light of the abuse, molestation, thievery, fraud, hypocrisy, etc. that has come to light. The priest that ran their childhood church and who performed their marriage ceremony was convicted of child molestation a number of years ago; I think that put the last nail in the coffin for them both. He ended up dying in jail.

Like I said, my husband and I are both atheists. He grew up without religion in his life and he's looked into it and read about it a great deal, but it just doesn't fit with him either. While we're both quite uncomfortable with religion of any sort being pushed into the mainstream and forced upon people without their informed consent, such as Christian charities that will only provide help if "the word" accompanies it, we're both very accepting and tolerant of others' personal beliefs and hope the same respect will be given to us in return.

Nice to be here and thanks for the warm welcome.
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Old 12-27-2009, 07:41 PM   #54
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Welcome, slane2. Glad you found us. And happy holidays to all.

I've been thinking lately...I have two uncles who believe that they have spirit guides who speak to them from the other side and relay messages from loved ones who have crossed over. I've heard people talk of their beliefs in these same terms (many famous psychics in recent years), and my uncles have held these beliefs for as long as I can remember so I don't know where, when, how they developed them. If there is no god or after-life how does one explain these beliefs? (I aks with an open mind). Any thoughts?
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Old 12-27-2009, 08:48 PM   #55
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Welcome, slane2. Glad you found us. And happy holidays to all.

I've been thinking lately...I have two uncles who believe that they have spirit guides who speak to them from the other side and relay messages from loved ones who have crossed over. I've heard people talk of their beliefs in these same terms (many famous psychics in recent years), and my uncles have held these beliefs for as long as I can remember so I don't know where, when, how they developed them. If there is no god or after-life how does one explain these beliefs? (I aks with an open mind). Any thoughts?
I would personally chalk it up to brain chemistry or neurons firing.

I heard a talk when I was in college by someone who studied that stuff, and he theorized that there had been brain changes in the last couple thousand years, that would explain the way so many used to seemingly "hear" things - thinking they were being spoken to by God - and that it had become so much less in recent centuries. In fact, at this point in time, we usually say someone is crazy if they go around exclaiming they are hearing things.

So that's one thought.......

The way I look at it, there have been some really holy people that never claimed to actually "hear" anything from God. And there have been some real nut cases that have.

So - what to believe. Brain chemistry does it for me.
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Old 12-28-2009, 06:28 AM   #56
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I would personally chalk it up to brain chemistry or neurons firing.

I heard a talk when I was in college by someone who studied that stuff, and he theorized that there had been brain changes in the last couple thousand years, that would explain the way so many used to seemingly "hear" things - thinking they were being spoken to by God - and that it had become so much less in recent centuries. In fact, at this point in time, we usually say someone is crazy if they go around exclaiming they are hearing things.
Along those same lines, in ancient times many folks were herbalists and ingested all manner of drugs and hallucinogens. They didn't have the "Just Say No" program in those days and many used them for their spiritual journeys. When Paul saw/heard Jesus, it sounds just like frontal lobe epilepsy.

Besides being much more superstitious, we were also much more likely to imbibe substances to enhance the "voices".

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Old 12-28-2009, 07:49 AM   #57
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I thought I'd share a cute story. We went to my parents' house over the holidays. My stepfather was telling my 4 year old daughter different Christmas-related things to draw, then she'd draw them. They did Santa, reindeer, etc. Then he suggested that she draw baby Jesus. She looked confused and said "huh??" I laughed and said "yeah, she doesn't know who that is." My parents are believers, but nobody was offended, we all had a laugh about it.

Did any of you have any funny or uncomfortable moments around Christmas?

Welcome, Slane2!
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:56 AM   #58
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I thought I'd share a cute story. We went to my parents' house over the holidays. My stepfather was telling my 4 year old daughter different Christmas-related things to draw, then she'd draw them. They did Santa, reindeer, etc. Then he suggested that she draw baby Jesus. She looked confused and said "huh??" I laughed and said "yeah, she doesn't know who that is." My parents are believers, but nobody was offended, we all had a laugh about it.

Did any of you have any funny or uncomfortable moments around Christmas?

Welcome, Slane2!
Glad nobody was offended!

My mom has this rubber Jesus doll that was her grandmothers. It still gets put out on Xmas because of the sentimental feelings behind it. I would always get in trouble for carrying it around and dressing up Jesus!
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Old 12-28-2009, 11:02 AM   #59
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I have a nice manger that I got when first married 23 years ago. Fontanini pieces, I got a few each year til I had enough. Yeah I was still a believer then. Anyway, I still set it out, because it's so pretty, and it's a nice story.

But my kids (DS is atheist, DD is agnostic) like to put the sheep on top of the manger, and hide the baby.

And this year I found a pink hot wheels hummer in one of the boxes I was moving around, and set it up at the foot of the manger near the wise men and shepherds (who are all way bigger than it) to see how long it would be before someone noticed. I said it was Baby Jesus' limo.
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Old 12-28-2009, 11:03 AM   #60
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Along those same lines, in ancient times many folks were herbalists and ingested all manner of drugs and hallucinogens. They didn't have the "Just Say No" program in those days and many used them for their spiritual journeys. When Paul saw/heard Jesus, it sounds just like frontal lobe epilepsy.

Besides being much more superstitious, we were also much more likely to imbibe substances to enhance the "voices".

Welcome Slane2!
Oh yes, good point!!!! I really don't like Paul, never have.
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Old 12-28-2009, 01:07 PM   #61
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Interesting points about voices and visions, Wrose and Patty. I would think a lot of fasting and other self-mortification could contribute. And just think how easily we mistake noises or shadows for something they're not.

Regarding spirit guides - I would love to know if these people ever say anything more substantive than, "Your loved one is ok and wants you to know they love you." sort of thing. BKSjones - any stories from your uncles about real specific communication from the other world?

I guess I would attribute it to a very active imagination. It's real easy for us to contemplate something and then it seems like a voice is answering you but it's really just your mind putting it into the form you want to hear.
I dunno.
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Old 12-28-2009, 01:16 PM   #62
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My story? Well... I was raised Roman Catholic and it never really worked for me as a child. I was always asking who created God, since God was said to have created everything. It just didn't add up to my little brain.

Of course, having gone to Catholic school my whole life, the sacraments were just another part of our academics... communion was grade two, reconciliation was grade four, confirmation was grade six. It was literally put right into the curriculum. So, I was confirmed when I was 11 without really understanding what it was or what it meant. Once I got a little bit older, around 13 or 14, I really started to stand my ground on my lack of belief; my parents understood and were supportive of my choice and that was the end of my church-going days (except for weddings, funerals, etc.) The older I've gotten, the stronger my belief that there isn't a god has become.

I often think how nice, easy, and clean it would be to believe in god. I hate the feeling that when you're dead, you're dead. I hate thinking that when loved ones pass, I'll never see them again and they're just dead and gone forever. It would be so much nicer to believe in a higher being taking care of us, a planned life for everyone and a reason for everything, and a life after death where everything is perfect and everyone is reunited... but I don't.

My parents have both turned away from the church in later years; they both still identify as Christian but are no longer comfortable supporting the Catholic church in light of the abuse, molestation, thievery, fraud, hypocrisy, etc. that has come to light. The priest that ran their childhood church and who performed their marriage ceremony was convicted of child molestation a number of years ago; I think that put the last nail in the coffin for them both. He ended up dying in jail.

Like I said, my husband and I are both atheists. He grew up without religion in his life and he's looked into it and read about it a great deal, but it just doesn't fit with him either. While we're both quite uncomfortable with religion of any sort being pushed into the mainstream and forced upon people without their informed consent, such as Christian charities that will only provide help if "the word" accompanies it, we're both very accepting and tolerant of others' personal beliefs and hope the same respect will be given to us in return.

Nice to be here and thanks for the warm welcome.
I was raised Catholic as well. When I finally got to the "no god" conclusion I actually felt relieved that there would be no afterlife. I could never picture myself looking back on my life from the hereafter or picture what it would be like. It scared me.

I don't like thinking I won't see my parents or grandparents again, but I also don't have to believe in a bunch of other unrealistic things and view myself always as a "sinner."
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Old 12-28-2009, 01:46 PM   #63
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YES! There's a huge sense of freedom and relief in letting go of the belief in God that I was raised with - it's refreshing to not feel like I'm being judged and I'll never be good enough. I mean, I'm pretty great, if I do say so myself. Why would I want to spend my time and energy in a place with people who make me feel like I'll never be good enough?

Re. the voices - my educational background is in psychology and I work part-time as a psychometrist in a day hospital for adults with schizophrenia. "Hearing voices from otherworldly folks" just screams "undiagnosed mental illness" to me, but I understand that's likely just due to where I come from in life. After that, I think about how George W. Bush claimed that god spoke to him and, well... we know how well that turned out.
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:03 PM   #64
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Oh yes, good point!!!! I really don't like Paul, never have.
I"m so totally an atheist I thought at first you all were talking about the Beatles HAHAHAHAHHA
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:05 PM   #65
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slane2 welcome to the "fold" HAHAHAHAHAHHA
I'm sorry I'm in a little bit if a Chinese food stupor right now.

Anyway glad you found us!
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:53 PM   #66
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Yeah, see, I hesitated to even ask the question, because I don't want to think that my blood relatives are crazy (I mean any more than normal ). One of them could have been "chemically enhanced", but not the other. I don't know if there is a god or an afterlife or not, so I would not presume to judge whether they are hearing these things or not, just curious what your thoughts are.

Oh yes, there are more specific stories: certain characters from family members' past lives, warnings, messages, apologies. My grandmother (the uncles' mother) died seven years before I was born and they say that on the other side, she and I are the best of friends and I was so disappointed that we would not be together at all in this life. She's sorry, too, but she just had to go back. I thought this was an interesting observation because I've never talked to anyone about how robbed I feel at not having a chance to know her. I look a lot like her, and have always heard what a great woman she was so it has always felt so unfair that I didn't get to know her. How could they have known that?

I'm rather skeptical of most supernatural phenomena, but this has been a part of my life for so long that I never even questioned it. That realization helps me understand how religious people can have such blind faith. Interesting...
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:57 PM   #67
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For me the acceptance of the supernatural doesn't equate with the acceptance of God. Energy, thought, intention are all intangible but real. I'm a true believer in the power of positive thinking...putting your intentions to voice leads to the final outcome. But that's entirely internal. I don't do it for other people, KWIM?
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Old 12-29-2009, 10:04 AM   #68
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For me the acceptance of the supernatural doesn't equate with the acceptance of God. Energy, thought, intention are all intangible but real. I'm a true believer in the power of positive thinking...putting your intentions to voice leads to the final outcome. But that's entirely internal. I don't do it for other people, KWIM?
I'm with you Victoria. I believe in ghosts and think reincarnation is a real possibility...there's just something too strange about deja vu! lol
Anyhow, I have no belief in what was written in the bible as "truth," but for some reason I do hold on to the existance of a supreme being - could be the aliens that seeded our planet!
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Old 12-29-2009, 10:08 AM   #69
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I feel a tiny bit guilty...I put off my husband and never brought the nativity scene down from the attic! He asked for it at least 3 times and I always had an excuse or distraction on my side. It's too big and not really even a nice one, I have a feeling he'll be bringing it down himself next year!
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Old 12-29-2009, 10:43 AM   #70
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I feel a tiny bit guilty...I put off my husband and never brought the nativity scene down from the attic! He asked for it at least 3 times and I always had an excuse or distraction on my side. It's too big and not really even a nice one, I have a feeling he'll be bringing it down himself next year!
That is a rough one. When my husband's grandmother died earlier this year, his dad tried to send us home with her nativity set as they noticed we didn't have one. If my husband had fond memories of it, I would have caved, but he doesn't so I polietly declined and asked it be giving to someone that would give it a loving home. I instead took the pretty bowl she would put cashews out in when we visited.
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:50 PM   #71
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I'm with you Victoria. I believe in ghosts and think reincarnation is a real possibility...there's just something too strange about deja vu! lol
Anyhow, I have no belief in what was written in the bible as "truth," but for some reason I do hold on to the existance of a supreme being - could be the aliens that seeded our planet!
Just curious.. Have you had any ghostly experiences? Or reincarnation ones? I tend to think of deja vu as "this is just how I pictured it" but without realizing it.
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:54 PM   #72
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I feel a tiny bit guilty...I put off my husband and never brought the nativity scene down from the attic! He asked for it at least 3 times and I always had an excuse or distraction on my side. It's too big and not really even a nice one, I have a feeling he'll be bringing it down himself next year!
I'm divorced so I'm the only one deciding on the nativity. I don't feel the desire to have one. I don't know how long it took me to realize that the nativity sets melded the two separate stories. After that it just seemed too contrived or something.
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Old 12-29-2009, 01:27 PM   #73
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Just curious.. Have you had any ghostly experiences? Or reincarnation ones? I tend to think of deja vu as "this is just how I pictured it" but without realizing it.
Well you didnt' ask me but I've had two very specific almost scary times that I've had dreams that came true. They weren't scary incidents but the fact that I dreamed something then in a short while it happened really shook me.
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Old 12-29-2009, 03:09 PM   #74
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I have zero beliefs in any spirituality. Tried to. I just think my brain isn't wired to allow it. One thing I do know is that our brains are hardwired to recognize and interpret patterns. We see patterns, and shapes in everything, especially something that we don't initially understand. It is why the clouds look like kitties or shadows look like the boogie man creeping up on us.

It is what allowed us to recognize the tiger in the brush from the squirrel in the brush and not run every time the leaves rattled. From my perspective, it is why people think they see Jesus in toast and why god must have made everything. I'm just too skeptical to accept magic as an answer.

I love the idea of magic, I just can't bring myself to accept that something that seems magical doesn't have a rational answer behind it.
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Old 12-29-2009, 06:02 PM   #75
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I'm with you Victoria. I believe in ghosts and think reincarnation is a real possibility...there's just something too strange about deja vu! lol
Anyhow, I have no belief in what was written in the bible as "truth," but for some reason I do hold on to the existance of a supreme being - could be the aliens that seeded our planet!
I think that there is a huge difference between religion and spirituality. I tried very hard to believe in the (very loose) Christianity by which I was raised, and even thought about becoming Catholic in my late teens, but the more I read and learned, the less sense it made. None of the monotheistic religions make any sense to me, and are just so hypocritical (as we have discussed before). I've studied Buddhism as well, and while the foundation and basic tenents speak to me, I still can't believe in the gods part of it.

However, I feel that there is something more that what we can see. I've also had experiences where I saw things before they happened, or felt like I had done exactly this. For me, that's deja vu--feeling certain I've done something before not just seeing it. I've never had a personal experience with ghosts, but I know many people who have.

How interesting, pattyIt, that you feel zero belief in spirituality. That is precisely why I consider myself agnostic and not atheist--I just can't say that I know for sure. I don't believe in religion but I just feel that there is something more. I agree with you completely about our penchant for patterns. I think it is when events don't fit the patterns that make me question atheism.
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Old 12-29-2009, 06:09 PM   #76
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I feel a tiny bit guilty...I put off my husband and never brought the nativity scene down from the attic! He asked for it at least 3 times and I always had an excuse or distraction on my side. It's too big and not really even a nice one, I have a feeling he'll be bringing it down himself next year!
If that had happened in my house I would have had to tell his that he'd need to go get it and I'd put it up for him. There are no nativity scenes in my house, and no angels either. I'd like to have a nice tree topper, but DH and I can't agree on one, so I just put a big purple bow on top.

One year a good friend gave me a lovely porcelain ornament of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, and I couldn't make myself put it on the tree. I think I contemplated regifting it, but put in a box of donation stuff instead.
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Old 01-01-2010, 08:20 PM   #77
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The article on using the Santa Claus myth as a "dry run" was brilliant; thank you for sharing that. My husband and I are both atheists and although we don't have children, this was a wonderful insight to enlightening children to make their own decisions on what does and does not "make sense" in their worlds.

I'm new to the forums and just found this thread - so, aside from that, hello to you all.
Glad you found the article useful, and welcome to the thread

As an update, both my children (age 7 and 10) say they still believe in Santa without equivocation, so I guess I didn't ruin the myth. I remember claiming belief in Santa for quite a few years after I realized Santa probably wasn't real, but then my mom said people who didn't believe in Santa didn't get presents and stockings from Santa, so I had an ulterior motive to believe
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Old 01-01-2010, 10:22 PM   #78
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My mom pretty much 'fessed up after we started asking too many questions about Milton Bradley and other brands on toys. I think we'd been suspicious for awhile before it was confirmed.

When I was in HS, I think Junior Year, Catholic HS, and one of the nuns was talking about something and used an analogy and said "of course Santa isn't real" and one of our comic students (I loved the guy, he was so funny) goes, "OH NO!" in a shocked voice - and for a brief moment, the nun fell for it, you should have seen her face.

ROFL
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Old 01-02-2010, 08:42 AM   #79
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I feel a tiny bit guilty...I put off my husband and never brought the nativity scene down from the attic! He asked for it at least 3 times and I always had an excuse or distraction on my side. It's too big and not really even a nice one, I have a feeling he'll be bringing it down himself next year!
Well, my take on that is that men so seldom show any interest or participation in decorating and getting things set up for the holidays (or any other time) that if a man shows an interest or active preference for ANYTHING, I would say encourage it. I would bring down that nativity no matter how ugly it was.
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Old 01-02-2010, 09:20 PM   #80
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Well, my take on that is that men so seldom show any interest or participation in decorating and getting things set up for the holidays (or any other time) that if a man shows an interest or active preference for ANYTHING, I would say encourage it. I would bring down that nativity no matter how ugly it was.
That cracks me up! Don't know if I would go as far as a Nativity in my house (raised Jewish) but I sure would fall down in Victorian Lady faint if my DH ever wanted to "decorate"!
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