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Old 09-02-2010, 10:16 AM   #521
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This cartoon struck me:

http://www.atheistcartoons.com/wordp...nowyouknow.jpg

It often seems to me that it's not anything I do or do not do - it's my non-belief alone that bothers some people of faith. Do you think they just find it so incredibly difficult to believe that I can be a nice, moral, good mother and community member without faith?
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Last edited by AlysonRR; 09-02-2010 at 12:41 PM.. Reason: modify my generalization!
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:53 AM   #522
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This cartoon struck me:

http://www.atheistcartoons.com/wordp...nowyouknow.jpg

It often seems to me that it's not anything I do or do not do - it's my non-belief alone that bothers people of faith. Do you think they just find it so incredibly difficult to believe that I can be a nice, moral, good mother and community member without faith?
Wow, that cartton pretty well sums up some of my experiences. It is so odd to me how one can believe they are that much better than me, even if they've made much worse ethical and moral choices, simply because I do not believe in a higher power.
I used to work in a correctional facility and would have to supervise the weekly religious hour. I would have to sit there and listen to the man who came in to preach tell these people that it does not matter what horrible things they did, that as long as they have faith and believe, all will be forgiven and they will go to heaven over the non-believers.
Not that I believe in heaven, but come on! You harm other people, steal, and lie and because you believe in some higher power you are better?
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:38 PM   #523
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I would love to have that on a tshirt.

I used to be very religious due to a born again mother's influence. I am exactly the same person now as I was when I believed. In fact, I think I am a better person now because I choose to be decent person as apposed to being scared into being one.




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This cartoon struck me:

http://www.atheistcartoons.com/wordp...nowyouknow.jpg

It often seems to me that it's not anything I do or do not do - it's my non-belief alone that bothers people of faith. Do you think they just find it so incredibly difficult to believe that I can be a nice, moral, good mother and community member without faith?
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:55 PM   #524
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Sophie - I hope you're not being too hard on yourself over the so-called wasted time. This was probably a healthy and helpful process that was needed for your development. I think those inner debates can be quite important for figuring out what exactly we believe or don't believe, and why. It sounds like you recognized when you reached the "enough!" point and no longer need visit those thoughts. But I suspect that it was an important activity for your growth. Because you've come through it, you might look back on it as a waste of time, but I'm sure it was important at the time.

Or not--hey, I don't know you, after all. But I recognize that behaviour in myself, and for a while I scolded myself for being "angry." But after more reflection, I realized it wasn't anger so much as passion. And I like passion!

At least we're thinking and not just brain-dead sheep-following-types.

Aw thanks Nickelini! I think you are right!!
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Old 09-02-2010, 01:12 PM   #525
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Wow, that cartton pretty well sums up some of my experiences. It is so odd to me how one can believe they are that much better than me, even if they've made much worse ethical and moral choices, simply because I do not believe in a higher power.
I used to work in a correctional facility and would have to supervise the weekly religious hour. I would have to sit there and listen to the man who came in to preach tell these people that it does not matter what horrible things they did, that as long as they have faith and believe, all will be forgiven and they will go to heaven over the non-believers.
Not that I believe in heaven, but come on! You harm other people, steal, and lie and because you believe in some higher power you are better?

Welcome Mrs Q! I was so busy ranting earlier that I completely forgot to welcome you!

In all fairness to Christians, back when I went to church regularly and when I used to hear the "believe so you'll go to heaven" sermon, I never got the impression that it meant believers were better or superiour to non-believers. Just that believers were still scum (as scummy as non-believers) but if they were willing to suck up to God (worship and adore him and beg for his forgiveness, etc.), he would let them into heaven. But they (the believers) would still be every bit as scummy as the non-believers.

I think (in general) the superiority complex might be coming from somewhere else - maybe a sense of self-righteousness or... whatever. I dunno. When I think of my mom, I think her superiority complex comes from her being so absolutely certain that she is right because her interpretation of the Bible backs up her viewpoints and everyone else is wrong, no matter what, because her interpretation of the Bible says so.

When I think of my sister, my impression of her superiourity complex (dunno if she's actually got one) comes from her facial expressions when the topic of gays come up - she becomes disgusted and revolted. I do get the sense that they (she and her husband) feel that all heterosexuals (including atheist heterosexuals) are superiour to all homosexuals. But this is my impression only.
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Old 09-02-2010, 02:07 PM   #526
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This cartoon struck me:

http://www.atheistcartoons.com/wordp...nowyouknow.jpg

It often seems to me that it's not anything I do or do not do - it's my non-belief alone that bothers some people of faith. Do you think they just find it so incredibly difficult to believe that I can be a nice, moral, good mother and community member without faith?
Yes. This is why so many atheists don't mention it at first. I want people to know I'm a normal, ethical, moral, good person, and maybe they just think I'm not religious.

I think it'll be awhile before a lot of people are "okay" with atheists. Many think they don't know any atheists.

The more they see people who are atheists and still decent, the more accepted it will be.

It does bother me when some Christians cannot conceive of behaving well without the fear of hell. Really?
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Old 09-02-2010, 02:18 PM   #527
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My oldest started school last week. And all of a sudden I panicked wondering how open I should be about my non belief. I honestly don't even know if parents now a days in this area ask the "what church do you belong to?" question. I mean I live within walking distance of a mosque and a church. It normally doesn't feel like an issue for me so I'm not sure why all of a sudden I cared, other than it will more directly affect him.

I still see religion as private as sex. Sure I gossip with my girlfriends about silly raunchy stuff but not the lady in line behind me in the store. SO why does she (line lady) feel it's ok to ask about my religious practices? KWIM?
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Old 09-02-2010, 02:25 PM   #528
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Yes. This is why so many atheists don't mention it at first. I want people to know I'm a normal, ethical, moral, good person, and maybe they just think I'm not religious.

I think it'll be awhile before a lot of people are "okay" with atheists. Many think they don't know any atheists.

The more they see people who are atheists and still decent, the more accepted it will be.

It does bother me when some Christians cannot conceive of behaving well without the fear of hell. Really?
So doesn't that in essence NOT make you a good person? Wouldn't it make you a scared person? Even my kids know how to behave not because I threaten to spank them or put them in time out but because they have learned what is ok in situations and are good kids. Little Jacob (2 1/2) says good morning and thank you to the crossing guard. Because you just do that. Not because he is keeping track of points LOL
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Old 09-02-2010, 03:11 PM   #529
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My oldest started school last week. And all of a sudden I panicked wondering how open I should be about my non belief. I honestly don't even know if parents now a days in this area ask the "what church do you belong to?" question. I mean I live within walking distance of a mosque and a church. It normally doesn't feel like an issue for me so I'm not sure why all of a sudden I cared, other than it will more directly affect him.

I still see religion as private as sex. Sure I gossip with my girlfriends about silly raunchy stuff but not the lady in line behind me in the store. SO why does she (line lady) feel it's ok to ask about my religious practices? KWIM?
Well if it's not somebody you're going to run into again, I guess you can just say "that's very private for me."

I guess if it were at school, you could just say you aren't very religious... I don't think I'd say more. Or use the same line, that it's private.

I dunno!!!
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Old 09-02-2010, 03:18 PM   #530
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So doesn't that in essence NOT make you a good person? Wouldn't it make you a scared person? Even my kids know how to behave not because I threaten to spank them or put them in time out but because they have learned what is ok in situations and are good kids. Little Jacob (2 1/2) says good morning and thank you to the crossing guard. Because you just do that. Not because he is keeping track of points LOL
For some, I'm sure they are scared. Others I think have internalized their behaviors, but have heard for so long about going to hell, that they think that's what's doing it.

Then I think, well there ARE people out there who are going to go absolutely crazy wild if they think there are NO repercussions. Which is why we have laws, right?

I sort of think that man created gods to explain what he saw in the world around him. The magic of the sun coming up every day, the moon doing its own thing, and how about storms, and upheavals. There were many many gods. Personal afflictions also called for the involvement of other gods.

And I think maybe more powerful and intelligent men created religion to keep people in line; you'd need fewer law enforcement types if people were scared into proper behavior by the "gods."

Anyway, that's a sort of vague personal theory I have.
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Old 09-02-2010, 03:31 PM   #531
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I guess if it were at school, you could just say you aren't very religious... I don't think I'd say more. Or use the same line, that it's private.
I've occasionally said "Well, I was raised Episcopalian but I'm not particularly religious". When I was in the midst of the overwhelmingly Christian homeschool sports group (there was praying before and after the games), I was asked what church we went to and I somewhat shortly said "We're not a Christian family". It certainly took them all aback! No one pried, so I guess I made my point - that one shouldn't assume every nice family is Christian, and that it really wasn't their business if we were or not!
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Old 09-02-2010, 03:31 PM   #532
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I see your point about there being all kinds of people, some who would go wild some who are middle of the road and some timid and fearful. Personally I don't NOT steal or vandalize because it's against the law I don't do it because it's not right. And I didn't need a church to tell me that. Nor did my mom who did teach me right and wrong. Nor did her mom. Her dad? and mine? Well let's not get into that k?
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Old 09-02-2010, 04:03 PM   #533
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My oldest started school last week. And all of a sudden I panicked wondering how open I should be about my non belief. I honestly don't even know if parents now a days in this area ask the "what church do you belong to?" question. I mean I live within walking distance of a mosque and a church. It normally doesn't feel like an issue for me so I'm not sure why all of a sudden I cared, other than it will more directly affect him.

I still see religion as private as sex. Sure I gossip with my girlfriends about silly raunchy stuff but not the lady in line behind me in the store. SO why does she (line lady) feel it's ok to ask about my religious practices? KWIM?
I don't think I've ever had anyone ask me what church I went to. (maybe I just don't get out enough!) But even when my kids were growing up and we were very involved in sports, scouts, etc. it never came up.

I think I'd be very offended if someone asked me that. I agree - it's private and shouldn't be of concern to anyone else.
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Old 09-02-2010, 04:11 PM   #534
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I don't think I've ever had anyone ask me what church I went to. (maybe I just don't get out enough!) But even when my kids were growing up and we were very involved in sports, scouts, etc. it never came up.

I think I'd be very offended if someone asked me that. I agree - it's private and shouldn't be of concern to anyone else.
You've never lived in the Bible Belt, obviously.

Nobody asks in my area. Way too diverse. My kids are actually in the minority at their HS. There are nearly 3000 students and 60% are Asian.
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Old 09-02-2010, 08:57 PM   #535
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You've never lived in the Bible Belt, obviously.

Nobody asks in my area. Way too diverse. My kids are actually in the minority at their HS. There are nearly 3000 students and 60% are Asian.
Yep, I’ve never lived in the bible belt. My parents were from Oklahoma – I was there once when I was 7 and swore then I would never go back and I haven’t. Although that was based on tornados, turkeys, and chiggers, that decision has served me well! Right now I’m at the point Sophie was years ago – I’m passionate about questioning. Before I say or do anything ‘scandalous’ I preface it w/ “good thing I don’t believe in hell”. Since I work w/ scientists and engineers it doesn’t faze them. I think the only thing worse than an ex-smokers zeal is a person that has newly embraced questioning the ‘almighty’!

I was glad to read Sophie’s post:

[QUOTE= I used to debate Christians a lot (and used a bit of logic there) but that was just to work through the self-loathing that had built up during years and years of being a hypocrite (pretending to be a Christian). I used to spend HOURS composing novel-length "response" emails to brave family members who USED to try to convert me. I remember once, a co-worker invited me to her church and I went, BUT I took notes at the sermon, went home, refuted each point the pastor made, and printed out maybe five pages (single-spaced!) worth of arguments against what her pastor said. I tell ya, I wasted SO. MUCH. TIME. <sigh> [/QUOTE]

it gives me ‘faith’ in myself; that I will settle down. Wow. Do I always use so many quotation marks? That’s annoying!
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:00 PM   #536
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You've never lived in the Bible Belt, obviously.

Nobody asks in my area. Way too diverse. My kids are actually in the minority at their HS. There are nearly 3000 students and 60% are Asian.
I've lived in Texas for 25 years now. I used to get asked what church I belonged to every single time I left my house, seriously. And the religious visitors knocking on the door every weekend. For whatever reason, I haven't been asked at all for probably five years.

One of my pet peeves is religious visitors when hospitalized. They get you trapped in a hospital bed and think that gives them the right to stop by and preach at you. The last time I was in the hospital, I made a point to put "no religious visitors" on my forms at admitting, and still got several. There was a little dry erase board on the wall across from my bed, and one of the nurses was always putting Bible verses on it. My parents (who are religious) and friends knew me well enough to erase it every time they came into the room.
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:07 PM   #537
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I've lived in Texas for 25 years now. I used to get asked what church I belonged to every single time I left my house, seriously. And the religious visitors knocking on the door every weekend. For whatever reason, I haven't been asked at all for probably five years.

One of my pet peeves is religious visitors when hospitalized. They get you trapped in a hospital bed and think that gives them the right to stop by and preach at you. The last time I was in the hospital, I made a point to put "no religious visitors" on my forms at admitting, and still got several. There was a little dry erase board on the wall across from my bed, and one of the nurses was always putting Bible verses on it. My parents (who are religious) and friends knew me well enough to erase it every time they came into the room.
Wow! That is so obnoxious!!!!

When I was a kid, if religious visitors came to the door, mom would tell them we were Catholic and they'd leave. Apparently they were afraid we'd try to convert them! I sure didn't know that at the time!
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:13 PM   #538
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Yep, I’ve never lived in the bible belt. My parents were from Oklahoma – I was there once when I was 7 and swore then I would never go back and I haven’t. Although that was based on tornados, turkeys, and chiggers, that decision has served me well! Right now I’m at the point Sophie was years ago – I’m passionate about questioning. Before I say or do anything ‘scandalous’ I preface it w/ “good thing I don’t believe in hell”. Since I work w/ scientists and engineers it doesn’t faze them. I think the only thing worse than an ex-smokers zeal is a person that has newly embraced questioning the ‘almighty’!

I was glad to read Sophie’s post:



it gives me ‘faith’ in myself; that I will settle down. Wow. Do I always use so many quotation marks? That’s annoying!
Ha ha ha ha ha! Not too annoying. I have a dear old friend, and when she writes letters, she puts the more interesting things in quotes. It makes me read the letter funny. LOL!!!!


Back to topic. I never felt that passion you guys have. I have been an on and off Catholic as far as practicing goes, until about ten years ago. For some reason, I just didn't even think about God or Religion for several years. Then I discovered a whole new world of people I'd never had any dealings with. Fundamentalists. Seriously, I had no clue. I was incredulous. Then I discovered a very intelligent dear friend of mine was a very quiet atheist. Then I discovered a few other intelligent people that I respected were atheists.

So, I started thinking about it some more. And all those years of Star Trek, the logic, the bizarre world around me - well, here I am.
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:37 PM   #539
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I've lived in Texas for 25 years now. I used to get asked what church I belonged to every single time I left my house, seriously. And the religious visitors knocking on the door every weekend. For whatever reason, I haven't been asked at all for probably five years.

One of my pet peeves is religious visitors when hospitalized. They get you trapped in a hospital bed and think that gives them the right to stop by and preach at you. The last time I was in the hospital, I made a point to put "no religious visitors" on my forms at admitting, and still got several. There was a little dry erase board on the wall across from my bed, and one of the nurses was always putting Bible verses on it. My parents (who are religious) and friends knew me well enough to erase it every time they came into the room.
That's just not right. And scary that even though you put it in writing your wishes weren't honored. Right up there w/ 'ambush' praying. I'm sorry that happened to you. I've only been a patient in a hospital 4 times and luckily not run across that. Although I had my second child in a catholic hospital and wanted to have my tubes tied after the birth. Obviously they said no. I was only 19 and not aware enough to pitch a fit. I didn't even know it was a catholic hospital until after the fact. They just told me I was too young to make that decision. Really? I only have two children so apparently I did know what I wanted.
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:58 PM   #540
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That's just not right. And scary that even though you put it in writing your wishes weren't honored. Right up there w/ 'ambush' praying. I'm sorry that happened to you. I've only been a patient in a hospital 4 times and luckily not run across that. Although I had my second child in a catholic hospital and wanted to have my tubes tied after the birth. Obviously they said no. I was only 19 and not aware enough to pitch a fit. I didn't even know it was a catholic hospital until after the fact. They just told me I was too young to make that decision. Really? I only have two children so apparently I did know what I wanted.
Yes, I agree that it is unacceptable to not honor the patient's wishes. I was trapped there for four days the last time and under orders to stay in bed (calcium levels crashed after thyroidectomy). Since I'd had throat surgery, I had very little voice for the first few days and couldn't be assertive even though I wanted to. You'd better believe that after I was released, I called up the hospital and gave them hell about it. No idea if it's been addressed, since I'll never again go near that hospital, for many reasons. But all of my hospital experiences have included ambush preaching, at several different hospitals, and not all in Texas.
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:03 PM   #541
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Did you see this book, which comes out next week? Better believe it's on my Amazon wish list already.

The Grand Design by Stephen Hawking

From CNN.com:

Hawking says in his book "The Grand Design" that, given the existence of gravity, "the universe can and will create itself from nothing," according to an excerpt published Thursday in The Times of London.

"Spontaneous creation is the reason why there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," he writes in the excerpt.

"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper [fuse] and set the universe going," he writes.
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:12 PM   #542
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Did you see this book, which comes out next week? Better believe it's on my Amazon wish list already.

The Grand Design by Stephen Hawking

From CNN.com:

Hawking says in his book "The Grand Design" that, given the existence of gravity, "the universe can and will create itself from nothing," according to an excerpt published Thursday in The Times of London.

"Spontaneous creation is the reason why there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," he writes in the excerpt.
There's a Guardian poll about this, very poorly worded, but the "I agree w/Hawking" folks are currently 89.6%, with the "Hawking is an idiot" (very loose paraphrase, lol) folks are 13.1%...

Link (though I think SCS Christian lurkers could turn the tide on this one, LOL):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ligion-hawking
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:19 PM   #543
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OH!!! I heard about Hawking on the news and meant to poke around more and forgot!

Thanks for the reminder!

I'm really glad he spoke up.
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:39 PM   #544
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I really liked this in one of the comments:

But really, the issue is this: is it important to believe in Him? It is not. He does not appear to treat us differently if we do or don't believe in him. Our main worry is what is after death. that is scary.
--------------------------------

That's my problem with a personal god. People say it's a miracle that people survived a disaster. Then you find out some didn't. Is it no longer a miracle? How about the grandmother that told her young grandson that his praying had saved his dad in a mine cave in - then they found out he was dead. What does that kid think now? He didn't pray hard enough, long enough, in the right way?

The problem with religion is that each one thinks it's found the right way to pray to their god. It's all a guessing game.
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:52 AM   #545
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I really liked this in one of the comments:

But really, the issue is this: is it important to believe in Him? It is not. He does not appear to treat us differently if we do or don't believe in him. Our main worry is what is after death. that is scary.
--------------------------------

That's my problem with a personal god. People say it's a miracle that people survived a disaster. Then you find out some didn't. Is it no longer a miracle? How about the grandmother that told her young grandson that his praying had saved his dad in a mine cave in - then they found out he was dead. What does that kid think now? He didn't pray hard enough, long enough, in the right way?

The problem with religion is that each one thinks it's found the right way to pray to their god. It's all a guessing game.
And that, dear people, is why I'm staying on the good side of Santa!
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Old 09-03-2010, 08:31 AM   #546
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I've lived in Texas for 25 years now. I used to get asked what church I belonged to every single time I left my house, seriously. And the religious visitors knocking on the door every weekend. For whatever reason, I haven't been asked at all for probably five years.

One of my pet peeves is religious visitors when hospitalized. They get you trapped in a hospital bed and think that gives them the right to stop by and preach at you. The last time I was in the hospital, I made a point to put "no religious visitors" on my forms at admitting, and still got several. There was a little dry erase board on the wall across from my bed, and one of the nurses was always putting Bible verses on it. My parents (who are religious) and friends knew me well enough to erase it every time they came into the room.
That is reDONKulous. Would so not fly here LOL
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Old 09-03-2010, 03:51 PM   #547
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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I have a quote in my collection at home about why should "I" (the quoted person, whose name I can't recall right now) believe God will do something about her illness when he did nothing about the 6 million Jews of the Holocaust. I'll try to remember to upload it tonight from home.

3000 students and 60% Asian? Bolsa Grande HS in Garden Grove CA by any chance? I don't think my alma mater, now in the heart of Little Saigon, will ever win another football championship!!
I had to look that up. Southern California.

I'm up in the Bay Area, Silicon Valley.
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Old 09-03-2010, 03:53 PM   #548
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I see I don't have an editing option, so I'll follow up on my own post...

Do I believe God is going to take away my illness when he turned an entirely deaf ear to the six million Jews who went into the gas chambers?
—Karen Armstrong
Religious people have all the answers -

"We can't know God's will."

"He must have his reasons."

etc. etc. Once you make that leap of faith, anything can be explained by it. Well, explained enough for them.
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Old 09-03-2010, 06:24 PM   #549
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Nobody asks in my area. Way too diverse. My kids are actually in the minority at their HS. There are nearly 3000 students and 60% are Asian.
I didn't know you lived in the Vancouver area too! No, really, if anyone asked what church we went to, I'd fall over in shock. Waay too diverse here for that, I'm relieved to say.

(Edited to say that I saw your post that you live in the Bay area, and not Vancouver after all.)
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Old 09-03-2010, 06:32 PM   #550
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I honeymooned in Vancouver. It's actually pretty similar to the area Wrose and I live. I wanna go back so badly!
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:00 PM   #551
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I honeymooned in Vancouver. It's actually pretty similar to the area Wrose and I live. I wanna go back so badly!
I'm glad you liked it here! There are quite a few similarities between Vancouver and the Bay area aren't there! San Fransisco is one of two places I'd want to live in the US (the other is Manhattan--and I'd need lots of money for either. Don't get me wrong, I like taking holidays in lots of other US places--okay, mostly Hawaii, but lots of others too. But I digress . . . ). Anyway, you're welcome back anytime.
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:50 PM   #552
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I didn't know you lived in the Vancouver area too! No, really, if anyone asked what church we went to, I'd fall over in shock. Waay too diverse here for that, I'm relieved to say.

(Edited to say that I saw your post that you live in the Bay area, and not Vancouver after all.)
It does seem like a great city.

Hey, V, Road Trip????
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Old 09-03-2010, 10:56 PM   #553
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Did you see this book, which comes out next week? Better believe it's on my Amazon wish list already.

The Grand Design by Stephen Hawking

From CNN.com:

Hawking says in his book "The Grand Design" that, given the existence of gravity, "the universe can and will create itself from nothing," according to an excerpt published Thursday in The Times of London.

"Spontaneous creation is the reason why there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," he writes in the excerpt.

"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper [fuse] and set the universe going," he writes.
I definitely want to check this out. I was pretty excited when I came across the article on this a few days ago and even posted a link to it on my FaceBook. Nobody replied to that one!
It's funny how I have several friends who are very religious and often make posts having to do with their belief, but I post something like the article about Hawking and almost feel like I'm offending people.
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Old 09-04-2010, 01:27 AM   #554
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SophieLaFontain, AysonRR, Mrs.Q and cdjkssss (and any others that have been so interrogated) please shift to New Zealand! No one will care about your lack of religion here. In my nearly 50 years I have never been asked what church I go to, and I am shocked and appalled that it is such an issue in parts of the US.
Stephanie
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Old 09-04-2010, 12:39 PM   #555
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SophieLaFontain, AysonRR, Mrs.Q and cdjkssss (and any others that have been so interrogated) please shift to New Zealand! No one will care about your lack of religion here. In my nearly 50 years I have never been asked what church I go to, and I am shocked and appalled that it is such an issue in parts of the US.
Stephanie
I WANNA GO!!!!

I know I've told you I've always wanted to go there. People would say "What about Australia?" and I'd say, "Well if I had time, I'd go there too" but really I don't care about Australia. I have NO idea why this attraction to NZ my whole life.
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Old 09-04-2010, 12:59 PM   #556
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SophieLaFontain, AysonRR, Mrs.Q and cdjkssss (and any others that have been so interrogated) please shift to New Zealand! No one will care about your lack of religion here. In my nearly 50 years I have never been asked what church I go to, and I am shocked and appalled that it is such an issue in parts of the US.
Stephanie
It's one of my great regrets that when I made a trip to Australia back in my late teens I didn't get to New Zealand, too. My parents went a few years back and thought it was one of the loveliest, friendliest places they'd ever visited.

We're settled here in one of the world's other lovely places (the Olympic Peninsula in Washington state), on property near my parents, in a custom-built dream house, so no emigrating to NZ for us, but I'd love to visit sometime
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Old 09-04-2010, 02:54 PM   #557
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It's one of my great regrets that when I made a trip to Australia back in my late teens I didn't get to New Zealand, too. My parents went a few years back and thought it was one of the loveliest, friendliest places they'd ever visited.
Well thank you kindly, Alyson! What a lovely thing to say.
Stephanie
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:37 PM   #558
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Default Burning "The God Delusion"

Book-Burning Shelved, It's Time To Commit Atheists To Flames

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Old 09-14-2010, 09:20 PM   #559
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Ha ha ha ha ha! Alyson, there are some great lines in that article! I love it!!!!
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:41 AM   #560
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That's funny. My favourite line is: "A spokesman for the Atheist Brotherhood in Australia was quoted as saying: ''We feel strangely unaffected and will seek revenge by raising our eyebrows and shrugging our shoulders"."

Here's something interesting that I came across this morning: Editorial Staff - An audience with the Pope | New Humanist

Apparently the Pope is set to visit the UK (at the cost of 12 million of the tax payers' pounds). This is what some prominent Brits would say to him.
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