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Old 06-17-2010, 09:27 PM   #401
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Thanks, Martha, I just reserved the other one.
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:35 PM   #402
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This is where I live
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts2936

Here is a link to the NC Secular Association which describes exactly why they put up the bulletin boards.

http://www.ncsecular.org/about.html

I knew that the "under god" was put into the pledge during McCarthyism, but I was shocked (and appalled) to find that they changed our national motto during that time also. Ironic, no, that our original motto, E Pluribus Unum, signified the unity of the American people, and the new motto, In God We Trust, indicates that only monotheists need apply.

I try not to watch the news any more than I have to, so I missed the story about the attempted removal of an atheist from Asheville's city council. I cannot belive that that law is on the books and has not been challenged and removed! It is blatantly unconstitutional.

I really like the Charlotte Atheists and Agnostics group's motto: "To create and foster a close-knit community of non-believers and to put a positive face on atheism through education, public outreach and community service".
http://charlotteatheists.com/index.p...&id=1&Itemid=5
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:02 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by bksjones View Post
This is where I live
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts2936

Here is a link to the NC Secular Association which describes exactly why they put up the bulletin boards.

http://www.ncsecular.org/about.html

I knew that the "under god" was put into the pledge during McCarthyism, but I was shocked (and appalled) to find that they changed our national motto during that time also. Ironic, no, that our original motto, E Pluribus Unum, signified the unity of the American people, and the new motto, In God We Trust, indicates that only monotheists need apply.

I try not to watch the news any more than I have to, so I missed the story about the attempted removal of an atheist from Asheville's city council. I cannot belive that that law is on the books and has not been challenged and removed! It is blatantly unconstitutional.

I really like the Charlotte Atheists and Agnostics group's motto: "To create and foster a close-knit community of non-believers and to put a positive face on atheism through education, public outreach and community service".
http://charlotteatheists.com/index.p...&id=1&Itemid=5
When I first read about that, I didn't even think of it as an atheist billboard. I just thought it was patriotic for the Fourth. Do you belong to the atheist group? Just wondering.
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:04 PM   #404
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Thumbs up Atheist declaration from June World Atheist Conference

What do you think of this declaration?

We, at the World Atheist Conference: "Gods and Politics", held in Copenhagen from 18 to 20 June 2010, hereby declare as follows:
  • We recognize the unlimited right to freedom of conscience, religion and belief, and that freedom to practice one's religion should be limited only by the need to respect the rights of others.
  • We submit that public policy should be informed by evidence and reason, not by dogma.
  • We assert the need for a society based on democracy, human rights and the rule of law. History has shown that the most successful societies are the most secular.
  • We assert that the only equitable system of government in a democratic society is based on secularism: state neutrality in matters of religion or belief, favoring none and discriminating against none.
  • We assert that private conduct, which respects the rights of others should not be the subject of legal sanction or government concern.
  • We affirm the right of believers and non-believers alike to participate in public life and their right to equality of treatment in the democratic process.
  • We affirm the right to freedom of expression for all, subject to limitations only as prescribed in international law - laws which all governments should respect and enforce. We reject all blasphemy laws and restrictions on the right to criticize religion or nonreligious life stances.
  • We assert the principle of one law for all, with no special treatment for minority communities, and no jurisdiction for religious courts for the settlement of civil matters or family disputes.
  • We reject all discrimination in employment (other than for religious leaders) and the provision of social services on the grounds of race, religion or belief, gender, class, caste or sexual orientation.
  • We reject any special consideration for religion in politics and public life, and oppose charitable, tax-free status and state grants for the promotion of any religion as inimical to the interests of non-believers and those of other faiths. We oppose state funding for faith schools.
  • We support the right to secular education, and assert the need for education in critical thinking and the distinction between faith and reason as a guide to knowledge, and in the diversity of religious beliefs. We support the spirit of free inquiry and the teaching of science free from religious interference, and are opposed to indoctrination, religious or otherwise.
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:28 PM   #405
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When I first read about that, I didn't even think of it as an atheist billboard. I just thought it was patriotic for the Fourth. Do you belong to the atheist group? Just wondering.
Not yet, as I am just learning about the group. But I am thinking about it.
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Old 07-05-2010, 10:31 AM   #406
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I thought that billboard was just patriotic as well, I missed the atheist part until it was talked about in the news.

Interesting list from the World Conference. I like it.
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:44 AM   #407
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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What do you think of this declaration?

We, at the World Atheist Conference: "Gods and Politics", held in Copenhagen from 18 to 20 June 2010, hereby declare as follows:
  • We recognize the unlimited right to freedom of conscience, religion and belief, and that freedom to practice one's religion should be limited only by the need to respect the rights of others.
  • We submit that public policy should be informed by evidence and reason, not by dogma.
  • We assert the need for a society based on democracy, human rights and the rule of law. History has shown that the most successful societies are the most secular.
  • We assert that the only equitable system of government in a democratic society is based on secularism: state neutrality in matters of religion or belief, favoring none and discriminating against none.
  • We assert that private conduct, which respects the rights of others should not be the subject of legal sanction or government concern.
  • We affirm the right of believers and non-believers alike to participate in public life and their right to equality of treatment in the democratic process.
  • We affirm the right to freedom of expression for all, subject to limitations only as prescribed in international law - laws which all governments should respect and enforce. We reject all blasphemy laws and restrictions on the right to criticize religion or nonreligious life stances.
  • We assert the principle of one law for all, with no special treatment for minority communities, and no jurisdiction for religious courts for the settlement of civil matters or family disputes.
  • We reject all discrimination in employment (other than for religious leaders) and the provision of social services on the grounds of race, religion or belief, gender, class, caste or sexual orientation.
  • We reject any special consideration for religion in politics and public life, and oppose charitable, tax-free status and state grants for the promotion of any religion as inimical to the interests of non-believers and those of other faiths. We oppose state funding for faith schools.
  • We support the right to secular education, and assert the need for education in critical thinking and the distinction between faith and reason as a guide to knowledge, and in the diversity of religious beliefs. We support the spirit of free inquiry and the teaching of science free from religious interference, and are opposed to indoctrination, religious or otherwise.
For some reason, I had missed this post.

I think that some would argue this: History has shown that the most successful societies are the most secular.

(Hell, there are still people shouting in news article comments that Obama isn't a citizen.)

This one: We affirm the right of believers and non-believers alike to participate in public life and their right to equality of treatment in the democratic process.

I thought - yeah and an atheist has a snowball's chance in hell of being elected to any high office in this country. If I were an atheist with political aspirations, I'd have to lie about it!!!!


Overall, I think it's a respectful point of view.


It reminds me of my good friend's approach to home schooling her children. She covered ALL the major world civilizations in depth, culture and mythology and religion. She did Egypt, China, India... and others, before doing Europe and Christianity. She doesn't want to impose her beliefs (er, non-belief), but wanted them to see all the views equally.
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:10 PM   #408
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I thought - yeah and an atheist has a snowball's chance in hell of being elected to any high office in this country. If I were an atheist with political aspirations, I'd have to lie about it!!!!
Even in egalitarian New Zealand, politicians will avoid describing themselves as 'atheist'. Our least religious Prime Minister, Helen Clark, said that she was agnostic, although I suspect she said it as it was more acceptable than 'atheist'. Still, to have said even that on public record was brave.
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:04 PM   #409
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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And I like this one:
We reject any special consideration for religion in politics and public life, and oppose charitable, tax-free status and state grants for the promotion of any religion as inimical to the interests of non-believers and those of other faiths. We oppose state funding for faith schools.

How much might that help our budget crisis? How many people are attracted to the big religions by the money, never mind the power?
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:05 PM   #410
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Even in egalitarian New Zealand, politicians will avoid describing themselves as 'atheist'. Our least religious Prime Minister, Helen Clark, said that she was agnostic, although I suspect she said it as it was more acceptable than 'atheist'. Still, to have said even that on public record was brave.
Stephanie
Interesting!

In England, does one have to be Church of England to be in politics? At least they admit up front that they have a state religion.
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:56 PM   #411
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This one: We affirm the right of believers and non-believers alike to participate in public life and their right to equality of treatment in the democratic process.

I thought - yeah and an atheist has a snowball's chance in hell of being elected to any high office in this country. If I were an atheist with political aspirations, I'd have to lie about it!!!!
Well, apparently here in North Carolina, it is against the law for me to be elected to any office, high or low , due to my lack of faith. I loved The West Wing, and during the last season, Alan Alda ran for president as a Republican who would not make statements about his religion, but did not attend church. He had personal doubts due to the death of his wife (I belive) but he would not confirm or deny anything because he knew it would be political suicide.

It is such a shame that in our country, religion is the absolute litmus test as there are much more important issues. I would certainly rather have an atheist as president than an addict, but for many faith is a deal-breaker.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:37 PM   #412
This reminds me of a Star Trek episode....
 
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Well, apparently here in North Carolina, it is against the law for me to be elected to any office, high or low , due to my lack of faith. I loved The West Wing, and during the last season, Alan Alda ran for president as a Republican who would not make statements about his religion, but did not attend church. He had personal doubts due to the death of his wife (I belive) but he would not confirm or deny anything because he knew it would be political suicide.

It is such a shame that in our country, religion is the absolute litmus test as there are much more important issues. I would certainly rather have an atheist as president than an addict, but for many faith is a deal-breaker.
Yes, and personally, when they had that "meeting" at Saddlebrook before the election (did I get that name right?), I saw it completely as a religious test - which is forbidden by the constitution, if I remember right. I know religious folks would nitpick that it's belief rather than religion, but for those of us who are non-religious, whether believers or not, it was definitely a test. If you aren't a Christian, forget it.

My DH is a non-religious believer. There are a LOT of them in this country.
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Old 07-05-2010, 06:27 PM   #413
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I like this one also:
We submit that public policy should be informed by evidence and reason, not by dogma.

A bunch of old (mostly) white (mostly) men telling women what to do with their bodies, and telling science teachers what points of dogma belong in the classroom.
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:48 AM   #414
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Okay, I think this site is funny.

http://loltheist.com/
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Old 07-10-2010, 04:47 AM   #415
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Okay, I think this site is funny.

http://loltheist.com/
I hope you just found this and haven't been holding out on us while you've been enjoying the humor! Definitely a keeper!

"Silly hats" Silly stories!
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Old 07-10-2010, 04:51 AM   #416
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Interesting!

In England, does one have to be Church of England to be in politics? At least they admit up front that they have a state religion.
No, not at all. I'm sure one can be an athiest to be in power in England. It''s just the Queen that is aligned with the Church of England.

Here in Canada - our leader's keep quiet about their religious beliefs. Thank heavens for that!!
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Old 07-10-2010, 04:54 AM   #417
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No, not at all. I'm sure one can be an athiest to in power in England. It''s just the Queen that is aligned with the Church of England.

Here in Canada - our leader's keep quiet about their religious beliefs. Thank heavens for that!!
Didn't Tony Blair wait until he was out of office to convert to Catholicism? I have the impression he did that specifically because of political ramifications.
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Old 07-10-2010, 05:01 AM   #418
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latest leader in the UK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Cameron

Speaking of his religious beliefs, Cameron has said: "I've a sort of fairly classic Church of England faith".[217] He states that his politics "is not faith-driven", adding: "I am a Christian, I go to church, I believe in God, but I do not have a direct line."[218] On religious faith in general he has said: "I do think that organised religion can get things wrong but the Church of England and the other churches do play a very important role in society."[217]

So, apparently the new British PM is of the Church of England Faith -but that's practically a footnote in wiki's bio of him.
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Old 07-10-2010, 05:06 AM   #419
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latest leader in the UK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Cameron

Speaking of his religious beliefs, Cameron has said: "I've a sort of fairly classic Church of England faith".[217] He states that his politics "is not faith-driven", adding: "I am a Christian, I go to church, I believe in God, but I do not have a direct line."[218] On religious faith in general he has said: "I do think that organised religion can get things wrong but the Church of England and the other churches do play a very important role in society."[217]

So, apparently the new British PM is of the Church of England Faith -but that's practically a footnote in wiki's bio of him.
Interesting and refreshing! I like the "I do not have a direct line" statement.
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Old 07-10-2010, 05:09 AM   #420
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Didn't Tony Blair wait until he was out of office to convert to Catholicism? I have the impression he did that specifically because of political ramifications.
Well, here is the link that I can find - it seem that being Catholic is not a good thing as far politics go in Britain......

But so far as I know - you don't have to be of any faith.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...2/uk.religion1

So why has it taken so long? Almost certainly because of Mr Blair's sensitivity about the place of Catholicism in British public - and particularly its constitutional - life. The only positions specifically barred to Catholics are marriage to the sovereign or heir to the throne, or becoming sovereign themselves, a legacy of the Act of Settlement that followed the Glorious Revolution of 1688 and the deposition of the last Catholic monarch, James II; there has never been a Catholic prime minister.

snip

He has kept his personal religious views largely out of his political life. Ostentatious religiosity does not go down well in Britain. He dropped his wish to end a prime ministerial broadcast on the eve of the Iraq invasion with the words: "God bless" on the advice of Alastair Campbell, who famously told him "We don't do God".


So, yes, for political reason he waited to become Catholic -but only b/c Catholicism does not play well in Britain. I think the Church of England was a breakaway from the Catholic Church - we would call it the Anglican Church here.
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Old 07-10-2010, 05:15 AM   #421
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Here is a fairly recent link to religion and Canadian politics

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/...e-ad11de38755c

Canadians are becoming increasingly uneasy about mixing religion and politics and they'd be more likely to vote for a party lead by an atheist or a Muslim than an evangelical Christian, suggests a new poll.


snip

The poll also indicates support has slipped for traditional Christian values playing a major role in politics.

Mr. Grenville speculated that nervousness about American politics -- more so than the "Harper factor" -- is responsible for Canadians shying away from politics with religious overtones.

"One part of it is probably the Stephen Harper factor, but I don't think he has been really wearing his religion on his sleeve, nor really embraced strong moral stances that can be traced back to religious belief," Mr. Grenville said. "It's the U.S. example that has really turned people off."

The religious right in the United States is considered to be largely responsible for sending President George W. Bush back to the White House in 2004.

Moreover, the invasion of Iraq, which Canada did not support, was widely regarded to be infused with religious overtones.
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:11 PM   #422
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Yes, Catholics = Bloody Mary. Not good memories for the English.
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:12 PM   #423
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I hope you just found this and haven't been holding out on us while you've been enjoying the humor! Definitely a keeper!

"Silly hats" Silly stories!
Just found it last night! A friend had the link on Facebook.
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Old 07-10-2010, 04:14 PM   #424
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Here is a fairly recent link to religion and Canadian politics

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/...e-ad11de38755c

Canadians are becoming increasingly uneasy about mixing religion and politics and they'd be more likely to vote for a party lead by an atheist or a Muslim than an evangelical Christian, suggests a new poll.


snip

The poll also indicates support has slipped for traditional Christian values playing a major role in politics.

Mr. Grenville speculated that nervousness about American politics -- more so than the "Harper factor" -- is responsible for Canadians shying away from politics with religious overtones.

"One part of it is probably the Stephen Harper factor, but I don't think he has been really wearing his religion on his sleeve, nor really embraced strong moral stances that can be traced back to religious belief," Mr. Grenville said. "It's the U.S. example that has really turned people off."

The religious right in the United States is considered to be largely responsible for sending President George W. Bush back to the White House in 2004.

Moreover, the invasion of Iraq, which Canada did not support, was widely regarded to be infused with religious overtones.
Fascinating! Here it seems the more religious one is, the more likely (s)he will be elected (of course I live in the Bible belt where I have attended staff meeting opened with prayer). I've been telling DH for years now that we need to move to Canada and here is another good reason.
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Old 07-10-2010, 04:32 PM   #425
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Sounds like a backlash to me.

Wonder if we'll experience one.

England has had a very bloody history with regards to religion, so have learned from experience to try to keep it out of politics. We have not (yet) experienced that.
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Old 07-11-2010, 01:07 PM   #426
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I think it is because those countries don't have talk radio. Those guys really scare me.

Seriously, why is it that America is becoming more religious and more politically religious than Canada or European countries? Why does the religious right feel the need to push back so strongly? They are a small percentage of the country yet are forcing their policies onto the political arena in ever louder voices (not more of them, just louder). When will the rational Christians push back?
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Old 07-11-2010, 04:39 PM   #427
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Why does the religious right feel the need to push back so strongly? They are a small percentage of the country yet are forcing their policies onto the political arena in ever louder voices (not more of them, just louder). When will the rational Christians push back?
My guess is that fanatical Christians are finding their religious tenets less and less tenable in today's world of, among other things: medical advances using stem cells, genetic modification of plants and animals, and a greater understanding of the genetic basis to homosexuality. I believe they are actually feeling very threatened. The problem is that they have the energy to fight, and the money to get into the political and education arenas, where their power is most effective.
Stephanie
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Old 07-16-2010, 09:52 PM   #428
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Yeah those comments are really hurtful. Why would god want him up there instead of with his family? My DD was only 23 days so she obviously did nothing one way or another to "earn" it. In those cases I think people of faith are really selfish. They are saying those things to make themselves feel better.
I don't think people of faith are being selfish. They just like you do not know the right words to console their friend. Since they believe in God they think there is no better place to be than heaven if your physical body is dead. How would them saying "those things" make themselves feel better? I am a Christian and when I saw this thread I wanted to check it out. Everyone of us ( the human race ) believes in something. I never understand how someone cannot believe in God so this thread piqued my interest. All of us have a right to our beliefs. I don't condemn you for yours but it sounds like we are being condemned for ours. You should not hold one thing a Christian says that you perceive to be selfish against all of us. Sounds like there should be a little open mindedness on your part. Oh and one more thing...we as Christians believe we are saved by Jesus and he earned our way at Calgary, we don't have to earn anything.
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Old 07-16-2010, 10:05 PM   #429
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Everyone of us ( the human race ) believes in something. I never understand how someone cannot believe in God so this thread piqued my interest.
I do not believe in God or any deity. I believe that we can find the truth of world through applying scientific principles which are: Have a theory about how something works, check the theory with experimentation, discard the theory if it is proved wrong. Simple really.
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Old 07-16-2010, 10:35 PM   #430
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I don't think people of faith are being selfish. They just like you do not know the right words to console their friend. Since they believe in God they think there is no better place to be than heaven if your physical body is dead. How would them saying "those things" make themselves feel better? I am a Christian and when I saw this thread I wanted to check it out. Everyone of us ( the human race ) believes in something. I never understand how someone cannot believe in God so this thread piqued my interest. All of us have a right to our beliefs. I don't condemn you for yours but it sounds like we are being condemned for ours. You should not hold one thing a Christian says that you perceive to be selfish against all of us. Sounds like there should be a little open mindedness on your part. Oh and one more thing...we as Christians believe we are saved by Jesus and he earned our way at Calgary, we don't have to earn anything.
You have a right to your beliefs, but this is not the thread to argue with us about ours.

Please read the OP. We are not looking to argue with Christians, but to discuss how we feel amongst ourselves.

Since there have been threads where Christians gathered to chat, we felt like we would like the same.

If you want to debate a topic, however, you can start a thread in Current Events.

I don't mean to be off-putting, but I'm not in this thread to debate Christians.
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Old 07-16-2010, 10:38 PM   #431
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I do not believe in God or any deity. I believe that we can find the truth of world through applying scientific principles which are: Have a theory about how something works, check the theory with experimentation, discard the theory if it is proved wrong. Simple really.
Stephanie
It does kind of interest me when someone says they can't imagine not believing in God.

My advice would be - try it. See what happens.
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Old 07-17-2010, 05:16 AM   #432
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At this point in my life I can't imagine BELIEVING in God.
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:21 AM   #433
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I don't think people of faith are being selfish. They just like you do not know the right words to console their friend. Since they believe in God they think there is no better place to be than heaven if your physical body is dead. How would them saying "those things" make themselves feel better? I am a Christian and when I saw this thread I wanted to check it out. Everyone of us ( the human race ) believes in something. I never understand how someone cannot believe in God so this thread piqued my interest. All of us have a right to our beliefs. I don't condemn you for yours but it sounds like we are being condemned for ours. You should not hold one thing a Christian says that you perceive to be selfish against all of us. Sounds like there should be a little open mindedness on your part. Oh and one more thing...we as Christians believe we are saved by Jesus and he earned our way at Calgary, we don't have to earn anything.
Thanks for picking out and quoting a post about my dead premature daughter to tell me I need to have an open mind. I hope you feel better as you pretty much proved my point.
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:33 AM   #434
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(((Hugs))) Victoria.
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:50 AM   #435
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At this point in my life I can't imagine BELIEVING in God.
If you start from a position of ackowledging that if you had been born in Saudi Arabia you would most likely be a Muslim, the idea of believing in one particular god is awfully hard to maintain.
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:54 AM   #436
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My guess is that fanatical Christians are finding their religious tenets less and less tenable in today's world of, among other things: medical advances using stem cells, genetic modification of plants and animals, and a greater understanding of the genetic basis to homosexuality. I believe they are actually feeling very threatened. The problem is that they have the energy to fight, and the money to get into the political and education arenas, where their power is most effective.
Stephanie
And, of course, biblical literalism is hard to maintain in the face of all the evidence of evolution and the paucity of archeological evidence of the flood, the exodus etc.
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:58 AM   #437
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(((Hugs))) Victoria.
Thanks
I needed that.
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:12 AM   #438
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as Christians believe we are saved by Jesus and he earned our way at Calgary, we don't have to earn anything.
?? Jesus was in Calgary?
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:30 AM   #439
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Yeah for the Olympics
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Old 07-17-2010, 12:34 PM   #440
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And the Rodeo!
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