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Old 04-23-2005, 12:02 PM   #1
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Default 5 yr. old hand-cuffed!!

Has anyone else seen the video of a FL 5 yr. old girl that was handcuffed while at school for having a tantrum? The assistant principal could not control her so they called the cops. 3 officers came in and handcuffed her. And does appear they put her against a table and used some force to handcuff her. I was appalled at this. I can't imagine doing this to any 5 yr. old And quite honestly she did not seem that out of control. My 4 yr. old has been worse. They had a poll on AOL and so far the majority of people see nothing wrong with this. Am I crazy to think this is wrong?
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Old 04-23-2005, 12:16 PM   #2
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Well, I've seen OUT OF CONTROL kids. And I've seen situations where handcuffs would have been appropriate.

At my dh's school they had a 2nd grader pull a knife.... in that case, I think handcuffs were MORE than appropriate.

Kids can get VIOLENT fast... and if a kid is truly unmanageable, I don't see an issue with handcuffs.... provided they are used with discretion.

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Old 04-23-2005, 01:21 PM   #3
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Who knows what the every day circumstances are regarding this kid. She may be out of control every day and this was just the end of the teacher's rope.

On the other hand, if the girl was just having a bad day....can you imagine when she gets older? She can say "Hey, I was that kid who was handcuffed by police and all over the news!" She will have quite a story to tell!

I think we, as involved parents, tend to judge these news stories and relate them to our lives. For example, a good kid who went to school and had a bad day and then got taken away in handcuffs. I have to think that this is probably not the case here and if it is, shame on that school and those police officers!
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Old 04-23-2005, 01:25 PM   #4
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I gotta agree with MamaK and raestamps - we have no idea what the real situation was. The media has this really nifty way of only showing part of the story so they get us all riled up and then they get higher ratings. I really don't put much stock in the media anymore!

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Old 04-23-2005, 01:30 PM   #5
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Did you happen to notice the state the room was in while the girl was throwing her tantrum? She had stuff all over the floor, was pulling things off the bulletin board, standing on the table swinging at the adult in the room.

I would honestly say that child was OUT OF CONTROL. What would make a child behave in such a manner or did I just have well behaved children, not always in my opinion but they never did that.
I volunteered in school, was a Brownie and Cub Scout leader and I have never seen that kind of tantrum before.

All I can say is duct tape would hurt a lot worse coming off. It had to have been a bad situation for someone was smart enough to get a video camera to cover their actions. If I recall the only time the adult attempted to touch her was when she was taking something from the bulletin board. Now you don't suppose it was sharp do you!

I say it's time to look into the home situation. Just my opinion but that child needed to be restrained before she hurt herself.

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Old 04-23-2005, 02:00 PM   #6
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Default out of control 5 yr. old

I hadn't heard anything about this before reading it here.
All I know for sure is this---if my daughter were to put one of her kids in handcuffs for throwing a tantrum, I'd be down at the county building bailing her out of jail.
I see a lawsuit coming here.
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Old 04-23-2005, 02:30 PM   #7
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I agree here with most of the other opinions!!! I think if you pay attention to the state of the surroundings... there was a lot of out of control issues we hadn't seen actually happening! The only time the teacher touched her was when she was grabbing at the bulliten board or standing on a pedastal type table! I really don't see anything wrong with what the school did! If I was a parent of a child that went to school with her, I would have appreciated the fact that something was done! I also don't see anything wrong with 3 officers either... have you ever tried to restain a child "safely" by yourself... let alone put the handcuffs on to keep her from hurting herself or someone else! Children today are very unruly and think they can "get away" with a lot more things than we grew up getting away with! Times are changing! It is scary to think that 5 years olds are coming to school with knives but it is happening!
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Old 04-23-2005, 03:10 PM   #8
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Looking at the situation, those in charge needed to determine at what point the child was a danger to herself and others. Handcuffing a 5-year-old may seem extreme, but there have been young children caught with weapons and drugs at schools, teens who have shot up their schools, etc. Unfortunately, if a school official had tried to physically restrain her without the handcuffs, he/she would have been in deep trouble if there had been any type of mark or bruise. Perhaps she had been on drugs (scary, yes, but also possible in this day and age, unfortunately), who knows? In order to ensure her safety and the safety of the children around her, this may have been the only option.

Personally, if my kids were in a school where children were allowed to throw fits in this manner and were not dealt with so as to allow the other students to continue to learn, I would have a serious problem. Obviously, this girl and her family need some help, and I hope they get it.
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Old 04-23-2005, 03:25 PM   #9
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I find two things in these videos to be telling..

When called and told there was a problem with her child the mother would not leave work early to go get her.

The cop says to the girl - remember me, I'm the one who told your mom I'd put you in handcuffs. This obviously wasn't the first time she put her class as risk with her behavior.

You can see both of the videos at this link:
http://www.sptimesphotos.com/video/office.html
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Old 04-23-2005, 03:36 PM   #10
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I'm sorry, but I can't imagine any situation where it is OK to put a 5 year old in handcuffs. I have a 5 year old with special needs and his best friend has asperger's so he is sometimes a danger to himself and others, but HANDCUFFING a child, that is atrocious.
Now, sorting the mother out, sending her to parenting classes, making her responsible for the child's behaviour, excluding the child from school to help deal with his or her issues, fair enough, but handcuffing, that is so far beyond extreme in my opinion, I don't even know where to start.
You don't think that an already emotionally needy and scarred child will have difficulty processing maturely the fact that they were handcuffed by the police?
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Old 04-23-2005, 03:53 PM   #11
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We don't know the whole situation, but they said she was punching the principal or assistant principal...that counts as assault doesn't it? Even at the young age of 5. If she was that out of control I don't think it was wrong to put her in handcuffs. If she was physically trying to harm others I think it was fine to do that to restrain her.
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Old 04-23-2005, 04:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ally
I'm sorry, but I can't imagine any situation where it is OK to put a 5 year old in handcuffs. I have a 5 year old with special needs and his best friend has asperger's so he is sometimes a danger to himself and others, but HANDCUFFING a child, that is atrocious.
Now, sorting the mother out, sending her to parenting classes, making her responsible for the child's behaviour, excluding the child from school to help deal with his or her issues, fair enough, but handcuffing, that is so far beyond extreme in my opinion, I don't even know where to start.
You don't think that an already emotionally needy and scarred child will have difficulty processing maturely the fact that they were handcuffed by the police?
The child's attorney released this video tape and there was no claim to the fact that there are any health issues. I believe in a situation where the child had a health issue, there would have been a different response to the behavior.
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Old 04-23-2005, 04:14 PM   #13
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As a mother raising a 7yo bipolar son I can how this can happen. Of course I do not know the circumstances concerning this girl, but my son gets totally out of control sometimes. It started when he was 6 months old. He would crawl to the wall and bang his head if he didn't get his way. At 8 months he would throw himself down and have full body tantrums. Those still continue to this day and all it takes is the simple word "no" to trigger one. I live with Jeckyll and Hyde on a daily basis and I never know which one is home. He has now graduated to violence against his two brothers and my DH and I. He physically destroys the furniture and anything else he can get his hands on. Trying to control a child when they are in one of these states is very difficult to say the least. Let me tell you there is nothing like being in the middle of Wal-mart and have your child screaming at the top of his lungs "I HATE YOU, I AM GOING TO KILL YOU, I AM GOING TO KILL MYSELF". People are so quick to judge and look at you like you either should be beating the crap out of them or you are just a bad parent. We are getting medical treatment for this, but it is a long and exhausting process to get a child stabilized on the proper medication to control these outburst. I would guess the reason the mother said she wouldn't come get her is that it was giving her daughter just the attention she wanted. Sorry so long, but I see a very likely medical explanation for this childs tantrum and no...the child can not help themselves. After one of my DS rages (this is what we call them) is over he is physically exhausted and sorry for what he has done. When we ask him "why" he doesn't know. This family has my prayers and hopefully they can work through this situation.

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Old 04-23-2005, 04:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by up4stampin2
The child's attorney released this video tape and there was no claim to the fact that there are any health issues. I believe in a situation where the child had a health issue, there would have been a different response to the behavior.

Even if they don't have a health issue, there must be something happening that we don't know about. I haven't seen the video and I don't know the circumstances, but I do not believe that out of nowhere this child just suddenly decided to have a screaming rage and start hitting out. There has to be a reason behind it and in my opinion, handcuffing would not have helped the situation.
There has to be an answer short of handcuffing, in a civilised society, surely?

And Pam, I would just like to say, I think you are amazing. To keep a sense of humour and balance in such trying circumstances, you are an inspiration. My son doesn't have tantrums and is generally well behaved and I lose it sometimes.

Edited because I sounded rude, sorry Nicki

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Old 04-23-2005, 04:40 PM   #15
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Although the school seems to deny that they were taping everything with this girl specifically in mind, I believe they were trying to get documentation on her...a good thing, but probably not legal without Mom's consent. Obviously there are issues that need to be dealt with. From reports, the asst. principal and she had a "history"...then perhaps someone else should've been trying to calm her down. If the child is always that way,then she needs to be sent to a school that can deal with her behavior issues (I bet that's another reason for the taping).

The child was sitting peacefully when the officers came...no need to handcuff. That's just ridiculous. If she had been tantruming then, then okay, but she wasn't doing anything when they put the cuffs on.

Obviously there are some serious issues with this child and Mom is probably no saint, especially if she wouldn't come get the child when asked. We don't know the truth of this story, but handcuffing a 5 year old who is sitting peacefully at the time of cuffing....come on!
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Old 04-23-2005, 04:48 PM   #16
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pamj thank you for sharing you story, I know there is no easy fix with bipolar disorder, but do send thoughts of strength for your family as you work together.

I have had a 4 yar olds slap me so hard that my glasses flew off my face and broke (this was out of the blue, she was laughing and next thing I knew WHAP!)
I have had 8 year olds throw shoes at me in my classroom and kick my desk so hard the front metal part bent. I have been cussed out by 8 year olds and had a 9 year old as tall as me in my face threatening to punch me because I would not allow him to punch a 1st grader (and in none of these circumstances did I ever touch any of the children, this was a situation that got out of control and escalated seemimgly out of the blue).

What teachers have to go through sometimes is surprising and sad. Perhaps this had happened before. I have no idea if this was the right or wrong thing to do, but I can see where I would have understood a child in my class being handcuffed after one of the incidents above if they could not be calmed down.
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Old 04-23-2005, 05:02 PM   #17
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It depends on the state, but in PA a school is allowed to video tape students for safety purposes without parents' permission. Only time permission would be needed is if it is to be released to the public. Furthermore, no school personnel is allowed to use forceful means to restrain a child. For example, we are trained that if a child bites us, the most we can do is gently apply pressure toawrd the bite so that the bite is not as strong, and hopefully the child would let go, otherwise, you have broken the law and are open to lawsuit. I kid you not. Having said that, the only time kids are taken away in handcuffs is when they have been arrested, so I don't know that it was appropriate to handcuff a 5 year old, but I also don't think she would be traumatiized for life, although I am sure she would be scared for a while!
Hmm, it's a tough situation all around.
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Old 04-23-2005, 05:04 PM   #18
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I think I am maybe too emotional about this issue. But it has me close to tears. I can't have children, my son is adopted so when I see neglected or abused children, I just want to bring them home with me. This mother makes me so angry, my son has been and always will be my priority, as it is for the rest of you. I cannot imagine any circumstance where a job is more important than a child.
I just don't think a child loses control like this for no reason. There must have been signs before this and help should have been provided then. I don't think any child is evil, just lashing out due to the pain they are in and how can handcuffing them help with that pain?
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Old 04-23-2005, 05:48 PM   #19
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I agree that there is definitely stuff wrong with the situation Ally, but sometimes it is a "damage control" issue where you have to deal with the current situation before you can deal with the underlying issues.... kwim?
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Old 04-23-2005, 06:30 PM   #20
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This is just crazy. I missed this whole thing. DH just told me that the mother is sueing the pd. I totally agree with what they did. if this was a problem then maybe handcuffing her was a tactic to make her realize consequences to these types of behaviors. She obviously did not get the hint with other forms of punishments. But honestly if this were an adult or a middle schooler or high schooler what do you think would have happened in that situation. And can you imagin if she is acting this way now how she will act if not taught a lesson now. I will tell you if any of my children were to pull a stunt like this and it were not the first time I would ask the pd to come out and scare the dickens out of them.
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Old 04-23-2005, 06:40 PM   #21
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We don't know the whole story. As a former classroom teacher, kids could get out of control. As a mom of special needs kids, they have meltdowns that make this child pale in comparison. My thoughts are: WHY did they leave the child in the room with all the things she could "get into" & take her to an office with things she shouldn't touch when she was already out of control? Maybe there wasn't another place, but if my Asperger or my OCD child is raging about not getting a toy at the store (and they don't usually do that, but as an example)---would I continue to go through the store with them & just keep saying, "No, no" & expect it to make it better? Get the kid in a room where she CAN'T hurt things. I feel sorry for the adults b/c I'm sure law says they can't physically hold a child against their will. It may have made the situation worse temporarily. I know kids can be strong, but if they'd had permission to physically restrain the child (by holding, not duct tape!) from the beginning of the situation, not once it was out of control, maybe they could have nipped it in the bud. She could very well have undiagnosed problems like a form of autism, bi-polar, etc. When I taught in a school where we had kids from homes where the moms were on drugs & Daddy was whichever man who slept w/ Mama last night, I know some of my kids had problems that weren't treated. And the school wouldn't do anything about it, either.

It's frustrating all around. I hope that the child is evaluated by some good psychologists/behavioral specialists to see if anything IS going on. The mom may be clueless, or she may know & not know how to help. So much we don't know about this situation.

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Old 04-23-2005, 06:51 PM   #22
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I don't believe anything that the media splashes around... not 100% anyway. I just don't trust the media, period. I've seen how it can ruin a good thing and make a bad thing seem great.

As Americans I think we have become prone to believing everything we see on the news as though it's gospel (just a generalism, I know, but just sayin'). I try not to get sucked in, as hard as it is sometimes.

Like, when the Terri Shiavo case was going on, I couldn't even watch the news because I was disgusted with the media publicity that it was given. I have to remove myself from situations that upset me or I just let them get to me way too much.
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Old 04-23-2005, 07:14 PM   #23
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Exactly Lori! Teachers NEED the right to give a child a bear hug and hold them in a SAFE position until the child calms down. When my 2 year old freaks out, there have been times when I hold her in a bear hug so she can't hit me or hurt herself. When she's calm, I continue to hold her and calm her.... it gives them that touch they SO desperately NEED but don't WANT.

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Old 04-23-2005, 07:27 PM   #24
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I think in today's society that we tend to not hold our children accountable for their actions. This child had obviously done this before because the PO asked her if she remembered him telling her that he would put her in handcuffs if she did this again. She may not be held accountable at home, but she should when she is at school. She destroyed that womans office and there was nothing she could do about it. She couldn't hold her down because they can't put their hands on her or there will be a lawsuit for sure. I think that this 5yr old knew that what she was doing was wrong, so she should get the punishment that goes along with it. IMHO
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Old 04-23-2005, 09:00 PM   #25
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well from my stand point, working with kids who have severe special needs and serious behavior issues, School personnel need to be trained, not just the ones working with special kids either. Proper training tohandle these situations is essential in preventing law suits.
From what I watched and camparing it to what I do for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, this kid was 'nothing' I mean really she was no where near what I see and would consider a risk to an adult.
Assault is hard enough to prove when 2 adults are involved, take into account for size, height and weight and physical condition. Trying to charge a 5 year old little girl with the assault of an adult might be stretching it a bit. IMO. She should have been in a different location with less potentially hazardous things to throw.
It is a good thing you all don't see a video of what I see everyday as far as behaviors.
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Old 04-23-2005, 10:09 PM   #26
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Quote:
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well from my stand point, working with kids who have severe special needs and serious behavior issues, School personnel need to be trained, not just the ones working with special kids either. Proper training tohandle these situations is essential in preventing law suits.
From what I watched and camparing it to what I do for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, this kid was 'nothing' I mean really she was no where near what I see and would consider a risk to an adult.
Assault is hard enough to prove when 2 adults are involved, take into account for size, height and weight and physical condition. Trying to charge a 5 year old little girl with the assault of an adult might be stretching it a bit. IMO. She should have been in a different location with less potentially hazardous things to throw.
It is a good thing you all don't see a video of what I see everyday as far as behaviors.
Dorinda, I so admire your work (but you knew that already from the Special Kids post!). All I can figure is they didn't have a "safe" place for her. Why would you put a kid who's been destroying things in a room full of stuff to destroy? And I'm with you on what we saw sure didn't seem like outrage to me! BOTH the glass windows in my china cabinet are broken from a child slamming them in anger (NO there was no china in them! It is a catch all now!), hair has been cut, shoes thrown, sisters hitting each other in pure anger---not just typical sibling stuff. Both my kids have "issues" that end up in meltdowns. They have not hurt US lately. Thankfully my older one, with Asperger Syndrome, has a gentle heart, so in her rages, she may hurt her sister, but usually her "destruction" lately is things like writing on the walls with permanent marker or threatening to "never eat anything else all day" (she's very small & she knows we are concerned about her weight). My greatest concern w/ her is that she will end up hurting herself. My other child is the one whom I'd pick up from nursery (when she was about 3 & 4) & hear, "She hit so & so" each time! She still will hit friends if they don't do what she wants. She doesn't usually come after us, though she used to bite & kick a lot. But, if you could see some of her rages & the frustration & anger she is feeling.....oh, my! I want a "safe room" in my house w/ padded walls!

I"m guessing that what went on before the video we got to see must have been worse because the adult in the room said, "The teacher and children had to leave because it wasn't safe to be in here." or something to that effect. She does need to be held accountable for her actions. I feel for everyone involved in this situation. The little girl seems to desperately need help, attention, training, discipline (teaching & holding accountable for behavior), or SOMETHING. The adults commented that mom could not leave work til 3---she may be a single mom trying to earn enough to feed her kids. The teachers/administrators need some training & I wish they had more leeway to help these kids w/ out being afraid of lawsuits. I feel badly that the police were called. Who knows, maybe this was a plan of action that had been discussed with the mom ahead of time? That if the child did this again this would happen?

I appreciate you & your dealing with kids like this---and much worse---daily!

Blessings,
Lori
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Old 04-24-2005, 01:36 AM   #27
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Thanks Chef Mama
I know there is a lot more to the story but hand cuffs seems way over the top to me, especially since she was sitting when the cops came in. It is sooo important for school staff to be trained to handle these types of crisis situations. Clearing the room of the other children was the right thing to do, I did see a few properly done strategies. I also saw some things that I felt led to escalated behavior vs. de-escalation. Intimidating a child who is already acting out physically can go in the opposite direction intended.
I hope they find safe solutions for that little girl.
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Old 04-24-2005, 03:56 AM   #28
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I haven't read through all of the posts, so I don't know if someone already mentioned this.

In our local paper yesterday, the front page was about an 8 yr old boy who was 'arrested' (not sure if that is the correct term for a child) for beating up his principal. It happened here in Racine, WI where I live. I don't know all of the details, but apparently the child brought some sort of stick to school to protect himself from other students and then when the principal tried to take it away from him he beat her up with it so bad she had to go to the emergency room. I honestly don't know why the child was able to overpower an adult! Then the mother came to pick him up and later that afternoon they found him back on the playground and his mother at home sleeping. I believe he has been taken away from her before and I'm sure it will happen again this time.

My point being is that you never know what kids are capable of when they get upset. If a child is brought up in violence, then they are taught that that is the way to deal with things...unfortunatly. The 5 yr old in the first post was maybe on their way to becoming violent.
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Old 04-24-2005, 05:53 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stampcrazygirl
I honestly don't know why the child was able to overpower an adult!
As a teacher in my school system, there is nothing we can do really. If we so much as touch the child we can be sued.

On the original topic, I can see both sides of the issue. As others have mentioned, we weren't there and don't know the whole story. As Camsmom said, classroom teachers go through a lot and there really isn't anything we can do without running the risk of being sued. It's amazing what can happen in schools now adays. Ten year olds are making death threats at other students and teachers, cuss them out, and they hit teachers and principals. If an unsafe situation arises in my classroom, I quickly take the other students out in the hall, shut the door, and leave the other child in the room alone while I have a teacher in the room beside me call the principal. We stay outside until the principal comes. I guess my point is this. Is 5 years old young to be handcuffed? Yes. Is that an acceptable action? At times, yes it can be. If the child is a harm to himself and others, I can see why this would be done.
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Old 04-24-2005, 06:04 AM   #30
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After reading this the biggest problem seems to be with the mom who is either is serious denial, unable to handle this child, or doesn't care. This is a sad case, one we definitely haven't seen everything about.

If we were to know all the story it would probably frighten us. Teachers are employed to teach, when one child makes that impossible then we need to help that child but this whole thing seemed to be out of control.

The officers did what they had to do with the resources and guidelines at their disposal. Why blame them for doing their job?

I am all for finding an advocate for that child and getting her the help she needs. I have volunteered with special needs children a lot, this child got exactly what she wanted, a lot of attention.
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Old 04-24-2005, 08:15 AM   #31
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As a teacher whose specialty has been behavioral disorders and mentally ill students for the last 20 years, I can tell you that handling ANY 5 year old in this manner is completely inappropriate. It may well be appropriate for a 14 year old. There are methods used to de-escalate this kind of behavior. I have watched 2 video tapes of this child and in neither were any appropriate or effective de-escalation techniques in evidence. What you were seeing was untrained people handling a situation they were clueless about in a power tripping manner. This child's behavior will never change as long as this is the way they are going to handle her. These people are into control and do not understand that behavior change happens in the heart and soul. If teachers were provided more training in these matters things would not continue to get so bad that we are arresting tots. Certainly the parenting needs to be addressed, but do you really think this mother is now going to be MORE amiable to working with these teachers or less?
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Old 04-24-2005, 08:53 AM   #32
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dot2dot, it would be great if we could have professionals in all of our public schools!
We handicap our teachers by not letting them even hug a child let alone hold one down until a temper tantrum passes. I'm sure this was not the first episode with this girl. Let's pray she and her mother get the help they both need.
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Old 04-24-2005, 09:09 AM   #33
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Haven't seen or heard this. We have been deep in the woods since Friday afternoon.

I do know that my daughter who has her masters in special ed. and is in her 10th. year of teaching was told this year that before she could restrain a child she would have to take another special class!

Some of these children are as big as she is.

She told administration that when one of the more out of control boys headed for the fence again she hoped someone could get him before he climbed it. Her comment didn't come out of not caring. It came out of frustration!

She and other children have been hit,slapped in the face,kicked,scratched,spit on and bitten by students in her class. So from this alone and not seeing the video I would have to agree with mamakimberly and camsmom.
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Old 04-24-2005, 09:20 AM   #34
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I think we need to look at what has happened to our society, We tell parents that they are responsible for the actions of their kids but then we tell kids that if mum/dad spank you call 911. My 15yr old son got into some trouble and we grounded him and he just walked out the door ignoring us. So I asked the MPs we live on base what I could do and was told nothing unless he broke curfew. Curfew is midnight. He knows we can't inforce his punishment so why listen. He told me that because I wouldn't let him stay the night at a friends house he was calling the MPs and he did. His actions are totally silly but very fustrating. Anyway my point is that you shouldn't always be so quick to blame parents when they don't have any rights these days. We don't know the whole story and even at 5 she could have been a danger to herself and others. If your child was in that class with her would you still think it extreme? Better to handcuff her while quiet than wait for it to start again and then try.
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Old 04-24-2005, 09:28 AM   #35
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I just got finished watching both videos. The little girl had not calmed down, she sat down in that chair when she saw the officers come in. I honestly cant say that it was right or wrong to handcuff her but do know from the video that she was assaulting the woman on there. I also know that the mother would have been there long before the officers if she would have left work when initially called. But it clearly says on the video that she would not leave work. she gets off at 3 and will be there at 3:15. That is before the little girl left her original classroom and went to the asst principals office. If the mother will not take responsibility for her child, who will. My son played upward basketball. A little boy on his team would hit the other boys. There were 2 or 3 fights a night with this one little boy being the instigator of it. He hit my son at the second practice, pretty hard. My son came crying to me. I told him to try and be his friend. I later asked him if he knew him from school, he said yes, he was always sitting at a desk out in the hall because he stayed in trouble. He said that he would be out there a lot and was always crying. About half way into the upward basketball season, my son came home from school and said that this little boy was in his class now. That the other teacher could not take it anymore.(which I believe is something the other kids should not know) My son loves school, one day he came home and had moved a marker for talking. I asked him why, he said that the same boy was poking him in the neck with a pencil and my son got tired of it and yelled stop. I looked at his neck and he had pencil dents in it. Also there were 3 or 4 different colors of markers back there. At the next game I talked to this boys mother. She said that her son was spoiled and that she could not control him. We are talking about 7 year olds. I think the problem with the little girl and the boy in my sons class is the family. If there is no dicipline at home, how can they respond to it at school. My heart breaks for that little girl, but definatly think its her mothers fault.

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Old 04-24-2005, 09:29 AM   #36
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Default Administrators May Insist On Putting Out Of Control Kids Back

into classrooms. Even after kids have demonstrated an inability to manage on previous occassions.

Some kids can't handle regular classrooms and tasks and rather than pull them out... Administrators might insist on keeping them with other kids.

The police had been called about this kid twice before...

Once at the school and ONCE AT THE CHILD'S HOME BY THE MOTHER.

The teachers and school staff could do everything right... but the Mother is probably reinforcing inappropriate behavior at home.

And it's an awful shame that teachers can't HUG CHILDREN WHEN NECESSARY.
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Old 04-24-2005, 09:42 AM   #37
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My first year of teaching

My first year of teaching was in an on-campus public school for abused and neglected children. The children were either waiting to be put in the foster care system, failed their foster placement and looking for new foster placement, or their parents were recently jailed. These children had already lived through hell and weren't getting out anytime soon.

That being said, all teacher's (4 teachers+principal) were required to take self defense classes annually, and were taught how to "take down" a child if necessary. The one time I had to "take down" an 8 year old it took me and a male teacher to restrain him until the counselors (huge men) could help. It was chaos and this child was causing serious damage to students and property.

My very personal experience is that when someone is physically out of control, they must be restrained! They can hurt themselves or others. If I was in another school in that system I would not have been a loud to touch this child. Who knows what he could have done until "security" arrived.
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Old 04-24-2005, 10:22 AM   #38
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Think about this-

Why is it that a child is

able to disrupt a classroom, (taking away valuable learning time from others)

destroy the classroom, (scare other children)

be a danger to others in that distruction (she is throwing things off desk), destroy an office, be totally defiant (NO!!!),

Climb on items that are not ment to be stood on (no feet where we eat, no feet where we meet - the desk),

And HIT another human being (yes she is 5 years old, but she was out to hurt someone)

And when the instructors take action of which this child had ample opportunity to stop this behavior but she continued. The Mother did not come when called. So the only other option at hand was Police Dept. And when They showed up she knew (look at the childs face and how quickly she sat down). If they had not restrained and left don't you think she would have started up again.

So why is it that society believes we should coddle children when they behave in this manner. And then when they get older and become more or a disruption in the classroom and more violent then we try to place blame everywhere but where the real issue is. Children need TLC Yes! But children also need to know that there are consequences for every action. And unless we as parents and as a society let them know right off that these actions are not acceptable then we are only asking for the worst of things to come.

Whether or not this child has some kind of predispostion to this type of behavior or not( i.e. pdd, bipolar or whatever other type you can think of.) children still need to know that unacceptable behaviors will not be tolerated. Do you really want children who display these behaviors and get coddled to go out in to the real world and work for you or while your shopping in the store decide to take down an isle of soup for the heck of it? I sure don't!
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Old 04-24-2005, 10:36 AM   #39
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Thumbs up I agree

Very well said stampinani!

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Old 04-24-2005, 10:50 AM   #40
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As a family member of several teachers, I can tell you kids are violent with their teachers all the time and the teachers are powerless to do anything to stop them. My mother is routinely hit and kicked by her class (4-7 year olds) and has no option open to her other than to call the parents, who often will not come, or to call the police. The police are not specially trained child psycologists, nor should we expect them to be. If this child has a history of this, she should be educated in an enviroment were things like this are expected and solid plans are in place to handle it. Yes I know our educational system falls short on this all too often, but this doesn't put those policemen at fault. My sister-in-law teaches special needs children and has often asked for futher help to students who are very clearly a danger to themselves and others, but with no parental involvement, nothing ever comes of it.

Bottom line, if this child is endangering those around her, extreme measures are often justified. This may not be the ideal situation for THAT child, but THAT child is not the only one to consider in this situation.
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