Have ethical question, need advice...

[Sleeplesshelley]

Hi friends!
I am a longtime stamper but new to this site. I have a sticky problem. I have a card swap group that meets once a month to swap and eat, numbers have varied but there are about 10 of us. Like any swap group, some of us are more skilled than others, but it's just for fun.
I know that one of our group sells cards at craft shows and other places. The other day I went to a church event where she was donating cards to be used for a few other people that needed support. She said "I have some cards packaged up to sell, feel free to use whichever one you want". When I went into the room, I was surprised to see that some of the cards packaged up were some of my older swap cards.
So now I'm wondering... if those were the ones she was willing to donate, is she selling the more recent card swap cards at the shows she goes to or online? Should I ask? Should I tell my fellow swappers? I asked my husband, who normally gives excellent advice and he said "Well you gave them to her right? They are hers. Maybe she needs the money". He couldn't understand why I would be upset at all, but then he's an engineer, not an artist. So I thought I would ask my fellow paper crafters.
I used to sell my own cards at a boutique shop and do quite well, before I just got too busy. Others in my group obviously also spend a great deal of time and money making their cards each month, the cards this girl makes are more rudimentary. The next time I know she is selling things an event I will go to check out it out, but in the meantime what do I do? I see this woman all the time and I don't want to cause an incident. Am I right to be uncomfortable with this or am I uptight? Thank you.

[Tizzy]

No ur not uptight at all i would be very upset, there's a code between us crafters that says you can't resell or replicate others cards, yes case-ing is ok but not outright copying, even on challenges you are asked NOT to use someone elses cards to try and win. One thing you can do is copyright your cards which then will prevent her from doing this, there's a free copyright site (can't think of the name but some other luvly will tell you) and maybe state to the whole group your wishes, me bieng the gobby mare i am would bring it up next time i saw her but thats just me, personally i think she's wrong to do this x

[Crafter 4 Life]

I would be upset If she were passing on your cards as ones she had made. I, too, belong to a card swap group and, as you say, the level of workmanship and quality of supplies varies.

Your husband is correct in saying that the cards are now hers to do with as she pleases but not if she is saying these are her work product. This being said, I don't know how you can gracefully remedy this situation. Does she use some of the other cards from the group swap in the same way? Maybe you can show other members in the group how she is using the swaps but then again, this would cause friction. Sorry, I don't have a workable solution but I know how you feel about putting time and thought into making your cards and then having someone pass the actual cards on as her work product.

[Sleeplesshelley]

Hi Tizzy, I just have to tell you that I don't know what the phrase "gobby mare" means but I highly suspect that I am one also, I have had a hard time not saying anything to her. ha ha ha My husband and I have been thinking about traveling to Ireland, this just makes me want to go more.

[jukie]

I might try and tackle it another way.....

At your next swap why not say ' Hey "friends Name" I saw you had generously donated cards to raise money for 'XXX' Charity would you like us to all make cards at the next swap for that rather than each other? that way she knows you know that she has been using your cards, and also she gets card to donate to a good cause!

The issue with completely calling her out is that she is donating them to a good cause, and probably feels since you gave them to her she can use them to help raise money. I doubt you or any of your group would object if she had asked before hand, so it may be a issue of good manners rather then being malicious, in my opinion.

My suggestions above are based on her using the cards for charity, if she used them for her own personal gain, then yes I would be more upset and I would find away of bringing it up at the next swap meeting.

[Luci in AZ]

I have run into this problem, I have a friend who comes to my classes, we are in a couple of the same meetup groups so we have participated in some card SWAPs. She sent me a link to a facebook page about a card making business that she wast starting up. Out of the 40 something pictures over 30 of the cards were mine from classes or swaps. She did mention a couple of months ago that she is now selling her cards at a boutique or something.

I know when I first saw her website I was like hmmmmmm, I didn't know what to feel. I decided to just let it go and have never mentioned it to her because I have never taken the initiative to try to sell my cards or make some kind of business with them, I have been wanting to start a blog but have yet to do it.

I also had another friend who came to one of my classes and posted pictures on her facebook, she then got so many compliments and not once did she mention that it was from MY class and not her own design. Another hmmmmm moment.

Sometimes I just think they really don't realize what they are doing, it's their property and can do what they want with it.

[Sleeplesshelley]

I don't mind if she donates my cards at all, in fact that's what I do with my unwanted swap cards, donate them to schools or the Cancer Store, it's the idea of her selling them for profit that bothers me.

[weims]

I'm going to agree with other posters that the donation is one thing, selling is quite another. I'm not sure quite how I'd go about it, but I would defintiely rasie the question.

If her shows are somewhere nearby, go and see what she's got. If you find one of yours, point it out and let her know that she mistakenly put a card you made into a pile to sell - that you understood the swap was for personal use or donation. Or ask her how much you've made from the cards of yours she's sold so far today.

[Angelnorth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeplesshelley

I don't mind if she donates my cards at all, in fact that's what I do with my unwanted swap cards, donate them to schools or the Cancer Store, it's the idea of her selling them for profit that bothers me.

I think the issue here is probably that you don't know she's doing that. You've seen one instance of her using your cards at a fundraising event and that has planted the idea that she might be selling them too. I don't blame you at all for getting that idea, I'd probably be the same. In your shoes, I'd want to find out for sure so that my mind settled rather than fretting about it.

Maybe you could use Jukie's idea as the basis of finding out or at least warning her off if she is selling your cards? Offer up the idea of the swap group making cards for a good cause on occasion and say something like "I think we'd all be comfortable with the idea of our cards raising funds for charity although we wouldn't want them to be sold for personal profit. What does everyone else think?"

Another thing you might consider is having little stickers for the back of all the cards you make, including those you make in the swap group. Tiny "return address" labels could be printed with something like "Lovingly hand made by Shelley (c) 2013". Maybe suggest other people might like to do the same (maybe even gift them a sheet with their own details on) and say you'd really like to be able to keep track of who made which of the cards in your stash.

[Tizzy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeplesshelley

Hi Tizzy, I just have to tell you that I don't know what the phrase "gobby mare" means but I highly suspect that I am one also, I have had a hard time not saying anything to her. ha ha ha My husband and I have been thinking about traveling to Ireland, this just makes me want to go more.

lol yeah Gobby mare pretty much means i don't know when to keep my mouth shut lol. And you should definatly come to Ireland it's gorgeous just don't come in the winter lol it's freezing!!

I agree that because she's using the proceeds for charity and yeah it's more a case of bad manners, you can delicatly broach the subject, IF she was posting them on FB to sell i would be furious using YOUR cards for her personal gain is awful...maybe i'm old fashioned but it just seems wrong to me, i would be copyrighting my cards like crazy!! lol xx

[binkiemonstermom]

Quote:

I doubt you or any of your group would object if she had asked before hand, so it may be a issue of good manners rather then being malicious, in my opinion.

Very true!
I tend to want to believe that she simply doesn't know any better. Or maybe has to many cards for herself to personally use?
As far as someone selling the cards that they made in a card class, well, I am not sure how I feel about that either. They made the cards, yes it was my design but then you get into Casing and what was an orginal idea and what isn't. Would that mean that is someone cased an idea from a friend or online they can't ever sell their cards? I know a lot of demos that exchange ideas on card designs.

Is there any way to stamp the back of your cards that do you in a swap so that you do get credit?? You could bring this up with the group?

[RiverIsis]

I think honesty is the best policy. But there is a southern saying about drawing more flies to sugar/honey. It is the way to be honest that is the conundrum.

Personally, I think you have to bring up in front of the group (not one on one) and say how delighted you were to go to her booth at the Church sale and that you just wanted to know whether she was selling old (or any previous) swaps or if they were donations.

It puts in the open for all those involved (no backstabbing) and lets her explain. Then the conversation can take it natural course on whether or not the group is comfortable with swaps being donated/sold. I think this could work IF everyone can keep it light and comfortable without getting accusatory.

I think the fact that it is known that she has a booth means she isn't trying to be secretive, maybe it just needs the swap understanding clarified.

Secondly, if people aren't signing/stamping the back of their swaps, now is the time to suggest they do.


And lastly FWIW - I agree with your husband. Once you have given something it is no longer yours to dictate how it is used. Could you imagine if you bought a painting and the artist tried to dictate to you where/how you should hang it and if you could sell it on?

We get very attached to our creations. That is one reason I blog and another that I don't give a card to anyone that I'm not comfortable with them doing absolutely what they want to do with it.

I hope you find a solution that you and your swap group are comfortable with.

[cat_woman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeplesshelley

... but then he's an engineer, not an artist. So I thought I would ask my fellow paper crafters....

I thought this was funny - I'm an engineer and think of myself as pretty crafty. Engineers are very creative don't you know.

Anyway, I agree with your husband. The cards are hers to do with as she pleases. Is it bad form if she's selling the cards you made for her personal gain? Yes. And the whole copyright stuff - Unless you can prove you are the absolute first person to make that particular card design (and you can't copyright the image, the papers, or the embellishments unless you created them), then that's not an option. I personally wouldn't ask someone's permission to sell a card at a fund raiser that I received from a swap since its not going into my pocket. I wouldn't sell a card for my own gain that I received from someone though. I'm also a little surprised by the reaction to people who are upset with people selling or showing off their cards made at classes. I liken it to knitting. If I've taken a class to learn how to knit and made a sweater and wanted to sell it, then I have no problem with that. I made it, I paid for the materials, its mine to do with as I please. Yes it would be nice to say "my demo/friend/dealer ( ) taught me how to do this". I wouldn't feel obligated, however, to give all the details of how/where/from whom I took the class.

Just my thoughts...

[kmatuschka]

You could also just ask the group at the next meeting, "what do y'all do with all your cards that you get from a swap?" That would at least be a way to get everyone talking about it.

[ceramicat1]

I'm curious, was there ever a discussion the swap cards were only for personal use? Otherwise, why shouldn't she be able to sell them? She shouldn't represent them as something she made, but they are hers to sell, or give away or throw in the trash if she likes, aren't they?

I guess I am confused about trying to extend control over something given away, or in this case bartered/swapped.

If the other members of the swap want to be sure their cards aren't sold, then everyone needs to sit down and discuss their expectations from the swap..

[Sleeplesshelley]

Thanks for the input. It's good to see everyone's opinions. I certainly have nothing against engineers, by the way, one of the most artistic girls in the swap is one. I do label the back of the my cards, I keep trying to get all the girls to do it so I can remember who made what. I also have not and wouldn't discuss this with any of the other swappers until I am sure that she is actually selling them, and that includes one of my best friends. I wouldn't gossip like that, I believe in talking to someone's face but I wasn't sure what I should do, which is why I turned to you fine people.

[stamp luvr]

I agree that she should not be selling someone else's creation for her own gain. Love the "gobby mare" description Tizzy. And yes, Shelley you should definitely plan a trip to Ireland. It's beautiful. I was raised in Enniskillen, Tizzy.

[Sharon1964]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeplesshelley

She said "I have some cards packaged up to sell, feel free to use whichever one you want". When I went into the room, I was surprised to see that some of the cards packaged up were some of my older swap cards.

I took this statement to mean that she had some of Shelley's cards packaged up to SELL, and that if Shelley wanted to take some of those for charity, she could do so.

I would definitely bring it up for group discussion, and, if it were me, I would say something like, "I have realized that I'm uncomfortable with other people selling the cards I put into the swap. How do the rest of you feel about it?"

By the way, copyrighting something doesn't stop anyone from selling it, it just deters them from saying they made it themself... unless she introduces herself as Shelley at the places she sells!

Sharon

[Sleeplesshelley]

Although in this case she was donating some cards to be used by church members, they were, according to her, packaged to sell for her personal gain. I used to teach rubber stamping at Michaels myself, and if I found that someone was selling EXACT copies of cards that I had taught them to make during the class I would think it lacked some creativity but they payed for the class and that would be OK. If someone was EXACTLY recreating all my card designs they got in a swap for profit, I would not swap with that person in the future. To me it's just bad manners. It's one thing to be inspired by something, I am amazed and inspired by others' work all the time. I just wouldn't copy it exactly.
Another reason I like the girls in the swap to sign the back of their cards is that I do often use their lovely creations and since people know that I make cards I wouldn't want someone I gave it to to think that I had made it when I had not.

[Sleeplesshelley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmatuschka

You could also just ask the group at the next meeting, "what do y'all do with all your cards that you get from a swap?" That would at least be a way to get everyone talking about it.

I do like this idea and will use it at the swap in February...

[Krysiad]

I sell my own cards as well as swap cards at craft fairs, garage sales etc, as do others in my swap group. Some members have their names stamped on the back, so if I sell that card, their name is credited. I don't put my name on my swaps so that the others can do what they want with it, even break it down for parts, if needed. I guess it depends on the swap group, but my group has no problem with selling each other's cards, nor do we expect compensation as long as our name is credited.

[sprtchick]

I agree that once given they are hers to do with as she pleases. I would be very certain that all cards hade the mark of the maker on them. I have a sweet friend of many years who I actually give a lot of cards to knowing she sells them at school. It is not extra income for her it is necessary money. She works for the school district and barely survives. I am so glad that I can help her.
Blessings

[xayide2]

Sometimes I sell the cards I make at a card shoppe. I pay my demo for supplies and prep time, then I make them. I just sell them at my workplace, but I do tell my customers which cards I designed and which ones I didn't. I think it's only fair to give credit to my demo since she is a graphic designer. But I did physically assemble all the cards I sell at work.

But I do try to reserve ones that were given to me for personal use though. I'd feel kinda weird selling cards someone else made.

[craftymomto2]

Are you signing the back of you're cards? If not, maybe you should then people will know who really made it

[kazooMI]

The cards were given to her, so they are hers to do with what she wants. If you gave any other item as a gift, say a basket you bought, would you feel the same way if you as that basket at a church bazaar? In a garage sale? What do you expect to be done with the cards? It is possible that she has too many to use/ hold.

You didn't say that she made any claim that these were her personal work. If she did that would be something that you would have a reason to be upset. As another poster said, mark the back of your cards with a mark, or signature, before you give them away to ease your mind.

Sorry but I agree with your husband and I don't think you have anything that you should talk to her about.

[gr8cards]

This is exactly why I sign the back of every card including swap cards...at least I get the credit for the work. After that, I don't care. A lot of the cards I get are not signed...I don't know if that's protocol, but I don't follow it if it is.

[Sharon1964]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeplesshelley

Others in my group obviously also spend a great deal of time and money making their cards each month, the cards this girl makes are more rudimentary.

I think this part is bugging me. Maybe I would feel differently if her cards were of the same calibre, but the way it is now, it feels like she is taking advantage of the swap to get better cards to sell.

It's like taking a package of oreos to a cookie swap.

[RiverIsis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharon1964

I think this part is bugging me. Maybe I would feel differently if her cards were of the same calibre, but the way it is now, it feels like she is taking advantage of the swap to get better cards to sell.

It's like taking a package of oreos to a cookie swap.

This is obviously upsetting . And I think that has to be acknowledged. Also there is a need to acknowledge all the possible outcomes.

1. Continue as is
2. Discuss with group and continue as is
3. Discuss with group and group disbands
4. etc.

Know what outcome is wanted to be before any confrontation. Also be honest on whether other members of the group will be as concerned.

I think it is valid to feel a bit taken advantage of, however, that is the nature of swaps from what I have experienced that there is a variety of levels.

Are there any guidelines? I know here on the board (haven't done any) there are swaps that are certain products only and they state quite clearly how many layers, brand of stamps. etc. and basically what is and is not acceptable. Maybe clarifying that will help the group feel like they are at least getting as much effort from her in the swap as the rest are putting in.

[Sharon1964]

Great advice; however, I'm not the OP. I was trying to work out why I was disagreeing with "she owns it now, she can do whatever she wants with it."

Sometimes I think "out loud." Okay, A LOT of times. ;)

Sharon

[lylacfey]

I will be the passionate one here. We need somebody that won't be level headed, ROFL! I would be furious! I would probably have grabbed my cards and said "Lady learn some tact!" I would have walked off. I get passionate like that. I guess I am a gobby mare too. !

I do agree with River Isis you get more flies with honey. Yes, you gave her the cards and they are hers to do what she wants with. Personally me I would be a bit embarrassed to sell my groups creations without telling the ladies what I wanted to do first and if they were cool with it.

What if she was selling to a charity or religion you don't agree with or go against your values? Your values and your spirit does go into your art work. That would bother me more than her trying to make a profit. Don't get me wrong the profit thing would make me see red too.

I would definitly bring it up to her nicely. I have noticed with women we worry about hurting feelings. I have a lot of guy friends. I have noticed my guy friends when they are bothered by something they lay it right out on the table, settle it and then go play Xbox.

Keep us updated.

[eulamarcia]

I get that you think she is taking advantage because her cards aren't as "fancy" as yours, but guess what - once you swap it, it no longer belongs to you. If you can't get past that then don't swap with her again. Perhaps she doesn't like all the "fancy" cards she gets in the swap and would rather see them go to some one who does like them rather than just throw them in the trash.

As long as she doesn't pass it off as her own design she is NOT infringing on anyone's copyrights. If you bought a Picasso painting and then resold it, as long as you tell everyone that it's a "Picasso", and not a "Sharon" then that is perfectly acceptable. If Picasso were still alive, could you imagine him trying to tell you that you must keep the painting forever, and that you may never sell it or give it away? HA HA HA! (I'm sure you'd be thinking "Yeah, right - good luck with that!")

Let it go and you'll set yourself free. People can only take advantage of you if you let them, and by perceiving this as a slight rather than a complement you are setting yourself up to feel bad. Think of it as a compliment that she thinks they are "sellable" rather than good only for the landfill.

[Joan B]

If I knit a sweater and gave it to Mary as a gift and then saw that Mary was selling it online or in a shop I would be hurt.

Yes, Mary has the "right" to sell the sweater but it would hurt my feelings.

So, I think this isn't about rights, but courtesy.

That said, in reality, the best time to have said anything is when you first saw the cards. I understand why you did not. Now, it is harder. I would let it go as I pick my issues. I know this may be scandalous to say on SCS, but it is just paper. I would put my name on cards in the future and let it go.

[RiverIsis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharon1964

Great advice; however, I'm not the OP. I was trying to work out why I was disagreeing with "she owns it now, she can do whatever she wants with it."

Sometimes I think "out loud." Okay, A LOT of times. ;)

Sharon

Yeah, that's why I went back and editted out the "you" 's - but I think your point is valid.

That stuck with me too.

[Sleeplesshelley]

It looks like reactions are mixed, which is kind of what I suspected would happen, it's a grey area. In case anyone is wondering why I didn't mention it at once, it's because I had to leave early to help my daughter with homework and everyone else was still in a class, so I was alone when I made my discovery. Otherwise I definitely would have said "Hmm, I recognize these" to her and see what she said.
I agree with Joan B that it's more of a courtesy issue than anything. Of course she owns the cards once we swap, and I'm not trying to have control over everything. I just think if you are putting forth minimal effort on your swap cards with the knowledge that you will be getting some intricate cards in return that you intend to sell, there's a problem there. And really, I'm thinking of my fellow stampers the most. There's one girl who obviously spends many long hours on her gorgeous cards. How would she feel if she knew the sad card she got in return was from someone who was intending to sell hers? It may be a sort of compliment that she thinks your card is sale-worthy, I suppose, but not all that honorable. I could post pictures so you could all really see what I mean, but I won't.
As I said before, I will do a little research to be sure that she is selling current card-swap cards. Then I will just bring it up with her and let her know that she needs to let the others know and be sure it's OK with them. That's the polite thing to do. I'm not obsessing, I have too many actual important things going on my life to get all upset over this, but I feel a responsibility to my fellow card swappers to find out what's really going on.

[Mindykid]

If I thought the people who gave me cards in a swap were going to put stipulations on what happens to the cards after they are given away, then those are precisely the kind of people who spoil swaps for me.

If anyone understands the concern of protecting a design idea, it would be an engineer. (Let's skip the whole diss made by the op towards engineers.) I believe most engineers and artists understand the concept of releasing ownership of a design once it's given away. If there is a need for designs to be protected, then there are legal means to do so. If that concern overshadows the joy and creativity that comes from fellowship and sharing with other artists, then I think a new hobby would be a good idea.

[Sleeplesshelley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindykid

If I thought the people who gave me cards in a swap were going to put stipulations on what happens to the cards after they are given away, then those are precisely the kind of people who spoil swaps for me.

If anyone understands the concern of protecting a design idea, it would be an engineer. (Let's skip the whole diss made by the op towards engineers.) I believe most engineers and artists understand the concept of releasing ownership of a design once it's given away. If there is a need for designs to be protected, then there are legal means to do so. If that concern overshadows the joy and creativity that comes from fellowship and sharing with other artists, then I think a new hobby would be a good idea.

Mindykid, if you read my posts you would see that I definitely was not and am not saying anything bad about engineers, and that the debate was not about protecting a design but about trading low-effort cards for nicer ones with the intent of selling them for profit without disclosing that fact.

[Candlequeen]

I use a personalized stamp to stamp the back of my cards. That way everyone knows it was made by me. You can buy many different varieties such as "Created by Joan Smith", "handmade by Joan Smith", "Another card creation by Joan Smith".....It still won't solve the problem of someone else selling it, but at least she can't then claim credit for making it herself.

[Tizzy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindykid

If I thought the people who gave me cards in a swap were going to put stipulations on what happens to the cards after they are given away, then those are precisely the kind of people who spoil swaps for me.

If anyone understands the concern of protecting a design idea, it would be an engineer. (Let's skip the whole diss made by the op towards engineers.) I believe most engineers and artists understand the concept of releasing ownership of a design once it's given away. If there is a need for designs to be protected, then there are legal means to do so. If that concern overshadows the joy and creativity that comes from fellowship and sharing with other artists, then I think a new hobby would be a good idea.

I think it's mostly a case of politeness and decency, if you go to a swap and make low quality cards and recieve high quality ones back and then sell them then the least you can do is bring the subject up and state what you intend to do with the cards and ask if anyone had an issue with this, i think it would spoil it more for me knowing that someone is making a profit from the groups hard work, chances are everyone would be fine with it but she should have at least said what her intentions were, bieng passionate about your work and your groups work doesn't mean you should find a new craft i would feel the opposite. Like many have said sign your work on the back, what about a poster or flyer with the groups guidlines, your not saying not to sell them but rather check with everyone else first? xx

[Joan B]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeplesshelley

It looks like reactions are mixed, which is kind of what I suspected would happen, it's a grey area. In case anyone is wondering why I didn't mention it at once, it's because I had to leave early to help my daughter with homework and everyone else was still in a class, so I was alone when I made my discovery. Otherwise I definitely would have said "Hmm, I recognize these" to her and see what she said.
I agree with Joan B that it's more of a courtesy issue than anything. Of course she owns the cards once we swap, and I'm not trying to have control over everything. I just think if you are putting forth minimal effort on your swap cards with the knowledge that you will be getting some intricate cards in return that you intend to sell, there's a problem there. And really, I'm thinking of my fellow stampers the most. There's one girl who obviously spends many long hours on her gorgeous cards. How would she feel if she knew the sad card she got in return was from someone who was intending to sell hers? It may be a sort of compliment that she thinks your card is sale-worthy, I suppose, but not all that honorable. I could post pictures so you could all really see what I mean, but I won't.
As I said before, I will do a little research to be sure that she is selling current card-swap cards. Then I will just bring it up with her and let her know that she needs to let the others know and be sure it's OK with them. That's the polite thing to do. I'm not obsessing, I have too many actual important things going on my life to get all upset over this, but I feel a responsibility to my fellow card swappers to find out what's really going on.

makes sense to me. i always think of brilliant, witty, things to say 3 days AFTER someone says something to me that ticks me off. Good luck and I hope it works out.

[sharilea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cat_woman

I thought this was funny - I'm an engineer and think of myself as pretty crafty. Engineers are very creative don't you know.

Anyway, I agree with your husband. The cards are hers to do with as she pleases. Is it bad form if she's selling the cards you made for her personal gain? Yes. And the whole copyright stuff - Unless you can prove you are the absolute first person to make that particular card design (and you can't copyright the image, the papers, or the embellishments unless you created them), then that's not an option. I personally wouldn't ask someone's permission to sell a card at a fund raiser that I received from a swap since its not going into my pocket. I wouldn't sell a card for my own gain that I received from someone though. I'm also a little surprised by the reaction to people who are upset with people selling or showing off their cards made at classes. I liken it to knitting. If I've taken a class to learn how to knit and made a sweater and wanted to sell it, then I have no problem with that. I made it, I paid for the materials, its mine to do with as I please. Yes it would be nice to say "my demo/friend/dealer ( ) taught me how to do this". I wouldn't feel obligated, however, to give all the details of how/where/from whom I took the class.

Just my thoughts...

I totally agree! Of course, I'm another crafty engineer! Ha Ha. I make cards for my own joy. What people do with them doesn't matter to me. I give them freely. I get payment from the enjoyment of making them.